# WAITaminnit... marriage is about CHILDREN? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410 "2004-03-03T23:32:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/41 "2004-03-05T00:26:49Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > So, to sum up, the reason we shouldn’t allow gay marriage is because it makes children confused. > > Of course, a 50% divorce rate, marital spats over topics as trivial as football, adultery galore, marriages of convenience, gold-diggers, and people that go through five or six spouses won’t ever confuse children, or be harmful in any way. > > The “marriage is sacred” crowd really has to start proving that it is, indeed, sacred, because our society certainly doesn’t seem to think so. I’d like a cite for the 50% divorce rate and also how they go about calculating it. There’s been lots of talk and prattling on about ‘facts’ when most of these ‘facts’ are opinions or guesses. You’re not the only one, just get tired of seeing this. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/42 "2004-03-05T00:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d like a cite for the 50% divorce rate and also how they go about calculating it. How they calculate it? Well… take the number of marriages performed in a year (remember to get your marriage license!), then take the number of divorces performed in a year… (Keep in mind that they don’t exclude instances of people getting married/divorced more than once… some people have several divorces, which makes it seem bigger. But still… the ultimate point is that marriage, as an institution, is treated like shit. Frankly, I don’t even know why gay people would _want_ to get married…) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/43 "2004-03-05T00:52:43Z")
> **[U.S. Divorce Statistics](https://www.divorcemag.com/articles/us-divorce-statistics)** > > U.S. Census Bureau reports the marriage and divorce rates in the US. > [@](#): > > Percentage of first marriages that end in divorce in 1997: 50% > Percentage of remarriages that end in divorce in 1997: 60% they cite at the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/44 "2004-03-05T01:27:28Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > …Frankly, I don’t even know why gay people would _want_ to get married…) Hear Hear! Apart from the property/financial issues involved, why on EARTH would gay people want to subscribe to the farce that is ‘marriage’? Rather than supporting the traditional marriage arrangements, wouldn’t it be better to force legislative changes so that they don’t _need_ to be married to enjoy the economic benefits that long-term relationships should provide? Why would they want to be part of an institution that is so profoundly dysfunctional? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/45 "2004-03-05T02:48:10Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > Why is homosexuality evil? > It hurts the fabric of society? > How does it hurt the fabric of society? > It’s evil! Repeat until repressed. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/46 "2004-03-05T03:17:21Z")
Someone kindly find **robertliguori** and slap him for me. He’s depressing. Not because he’s wrong or stupid, but because he may have made the most succinct expression of circular logic I’ve ever seen… ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/47 "2004-03-05T04:03:16Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > Someone kindly find **robertliguori** and slap him for me. > > He’s depressing. Not because he’s wrong or stupid, but because he may have made the most succinct expression of circular logic I’ve ever seen… Don’t slap me, slap the people who can think like that without slapping themselves. They need it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/48 "2004-03-05T04:28:52Z")
As far as I can figure it, Marriage **is** about children. It’s that way in the same way my hammer is about pounding nails. I think marriage came into existance and owes it’s success as an institution in large part because it is an excellent strategy for having and raising children. Similarly my hammer exists because of nail pounding needs. But both marriage and hammers are useful for more than a single purpose. I can use my hammer to pry things, to break things, I’ve even used it as a climbing tool. It can tenderize meat, or ring a gong. If you are trying to attach something to a wall… a hammer is a good way to find studs. Which naturally brings us back to marriage since it’s useful for the same purpose. When I first got married, marriage wasn’t about kids. It was about bonding and partnership and making a life, and love, and sex and maturation. Now that we have kids, it’s all about kids. Maybe after the kids grow up it will be about something else. From where I sit it seems to me that marriage is to having kids as a hammer is to pounding nails. That’s the raison d’etre. I certainly don’t see anything wrong with somebody using the end of a hammer to pry open a paint can. I don’t think that’s a bad use, or the betrayal of a hammer. On the other hand, I know some purists that would never even use a screwdriver to open a paint can. They have a pry bar for that. Each tool has a specific use in their minds and shouldn’t be used for anything else. I guess that’s a valid point as long as you confine it to your own tools. Personally I think such fastidiousness tends to producing boring and unimaginative workmanship, but that’s not my problem. The thing is good for what can be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/49 "2004-03-05T11:10:09Z")
Is there a tool for mending analogies which have been stretched so far that they have become utterly useless? ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/50 "2004-03-05T15:57:41Z")
**Master Wang-ka** is most excellently correct. As is everybody else in this thread. I have a friend - she married in September. Of last year. She’s now in the process of separating, and most likely will end up getting a divorce. Seven long months of wedded bliss, ladies and gentlemen! Did she even know this person before she married him?! Ye gods, she can make a mockery of marriage with her (soon to be ex-) husband, due to their respective sexes, yet two men or two women who have been committed to each other for years, who will stay together for years more, cannot do honor to that venerable (and embattled) institution. Something’s screwed up in this world. Years after my grandfather’s death, my grandmother remarried. She’s devoted to her husband and is wildly happy in their relationship, yet since they’re both well-past child bearing years, they should be excoriated? Or they shouldn’t have been allowed to marry? My husband and I have no plans to have children - should our marriage be repealed? What about childless couples that cannot bear children due to fertility problems - should they be required to divorce? It’s ridiculous, and it doesn’t hold water. But then I support gay marriage anyway, so what do I know? Snicks ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/51 "2004-03-05T18:00:36Z")
Just thought I should note that I had a vasectomy yesterday. Will someone please tell me how soon I can expect my still-and-forever-childless marriage of 5 years to be annulled? I’m sure there will be a lot of paperwork to fill out, and I just want to make sure my wife and I set aside enough time. Thank you. - toadspittle, in his first Pit appearance ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/52 "2004-03-05T18:46:12Z")
**Scylla** makes a fine point. Marriage is what you make of it. What YOU make of it, YOU, the person engaged in the marriage. YOU define it. In which case… again… who are these politicians, to tell me what my marriage is supposed to be about? What if \*\*Scylla \*\* had never had children? What if \*\*Scylla \*\* had, through some misfortune, become sterile, and therefore, his marriage COULD NOT be about kids? Yes, I know, he could adopt… but so can gay folks, no? I find it creepy that gay folks are apparently, by virtue of being gay, less stable, sane, and functional… than any straight person. Automatically. At least, in the eyes of some of our lawmakers. And _I’ve_ known some pretty frickin’ crazy straight people. How d’y’figure that? ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/53 "2004-03-05T21:59:33Z")
If anybody in the US government, federal or state or municipal, actually believed that marriage was about children, this country would have maternity leave of a semi-decent duration. Like, say, 8 weeks :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/54 "2004-03-06T17:40:52Z")
That’s a good point, **Barbarian**. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/55 "2004-03-11T19:52:34Z")
Thank you **Fionn**. Although I feel the need to point out that my scintillating insight is what comes from growing up in a country with federally mandated 6 month maternal leave, and 6 month parental leave (so daddies can stay home with their kids too). ---
**Author:** ![pushpitskin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@pushpitskin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pushpitskin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/56 "2004-03-11T20:40:47Z")
> [@](#): > > But never, and I mean never, can two gay people produce a child on their own. This was the funniest part of that letter to me. As I understand the process, two gay people certainly CAN produce children on their own - as long as one is a fertile gay man and the other is a fertile gay woman. Because it’s not as if every child is produced between two people who feel romantic love toward one another. I’d think a kid with a lesbian mom and a gay male dad would have a slightly better than average chance of having two biological parents who at least like and respect one another than a hell of a lot of kids born to straight parents. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/57 "2004-03-11T21:01:12Z")
> [@pushpitskin](#): > > This was the funniest part of that letter to me. As I understand the process, two gay people certainly CAN produce children on their own - as long as one is a fertile gay man and the other is a fertile gay woman. I have a son. I am gay. His mother is a lesbian. We are best friends (and used to be married). ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410/58 "2004-03-11T22:46:41Z")
Marriage is about 1.) controlling sex and 2.) creating a single economic unit for the benefit of all parties. And that’s fine. Good idea. The only reason the anti-gay faction is suddenly adopting this socio-biological theory is that having babies simply is the only thing straight can do that gays can not. The idea that every single human impulse and cultural institution is all about passing on genes agrees more with darwinian theories of evolution that with Christianity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitaminnit-marriage-is-about-children/232410.md?page=2)