# Waiter/waitress rants **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357 "2010-05-31T06:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/241 "2010-08-08T17:01:44Z")
> [@Foldup\_Rabbit](#): > > This is a little ridiculous. Every restaurant I’ve ever worked at in the last five years and all but one in the last ten had a sophisticated enough POS that I could send both one bill to the kitchen and separate bills to the customer. Thanks for the information. As i said earlier, i haven’t worked POS equipment in a long time (about 15 years), and i was quite surprised by the implication in some other people’s posts that this level of sophistication had not yet been reached. ---
**Author:** ![US\_Bureau\_of\_Labor\_Statistics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c2a13f/32.png) [@US\_Bureau\_of\_Labor\_Statistics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_Bureau_of_Labor_Statistics)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/242 "2010-08-08T17:11:57Z")
> [@Acantha](#): > > I agree with you that it would be easier for a computer to divide it. I just find it amusing that people are all about separate checks and making wait staff jump through hoops because it’s \*such a pain in the ass to divide the check themselves, \* yet when it comes time to tip, many are all ‘what the hell do they do to deserve my tip?’ > > For starters, they deal with this sort of pain in the ass request on a daily basis because people can’t seem to settle a simple dinner bill with their friends. > > People are odd. Not necessarily you, but people in general. I don’t get it. You can’t make up your mind whether splitting a check is easy or not. If the customers are doing it, it’s their fault it takes so long and they must be stupid, because it’s the easiest thing in the world. But hey oooo you better not make the waitstaff split them. Then it’s a legitimate _pain in the ass_ or better yet a _workflow problem_. SO FIX IT! You’re in a fucked industry when customers have legitimate problems\* with the product and the usual response is ‘that’s how we’ve always done it, you must just be stupid’. \*For the last time, yes, it is a legitimate problem that if one person in my table is a cheapskate, the rest of us have to ready ourselves for sparring over who pays for what. Especially when the whole point of your industry is doing all the work for people. If I wanted to do shit for myself then I’d eat at my house and not pay the 1000% premium on your food. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/243 "2010-08-08T18:39:24Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > > [@norinew](#): > > > > \ > > I feel the same about people who don’t tip the pizza delivery guy (or girl)! > > Call me an asshole, but I’ve never understood this practice. To me, it’s like one notch above tipping the girl who scoops your ice cream at Cold Stone. Yes, I’ve a decidedly Mr. Pink-ish take on _that specific kind_ of tipping. Nevertheless, the pizza delivery guy still gets a few bucks on the rare occasion when I actually do order delivery. (The barristas/scoop girls, etc., get exactly _bupkis_.) > > Since the topic of ethnicity/tipping was tentatively broached earlier on in the thread, I’ll throw this anecdote out, for what it’s worth: A friend of mine waited tables at the local TGIF for several years, and always said that, without fail, the absolute shittiest tippers were African-Americans. He said that they’d make you jump through a shit-ton of hoops (my friend’s caucasian, by the way), and that after all that, he’d consider himself lucky it he got anywhere near a 10% tip. And he said that, strangely enough, they were even harder on the black servers. > > (Incidentally, his nomination for a very close second place in the shitty tips contest? Christians who were eating out after their Sunday morning service. Evidently, their douchiness-to-tip ratio was almost as abysmal as that of the African-Americans.) Yep.. I’ve thought about hanging a sign around my neck saying.. I TIP WELL!!! I was a skycap when I was in undergrad.. since I was low man on the totem pole they use to make me take care of the females with children of black and hispanic origin.. yeah..pretty much doin that one for the team. I show my servers plenty of love.. hey.. i don’t want something happening to my grub.. common sense should dictate.. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/244 "2010-08-08T18:49:28Z")
Meh, if splitting checks are that important to you, then go to the places that will split checks. If you’re finding even your giant wallet is not enough to make restaurants willing to split checks, then clearly they don’t need to cater to you that badly. The free market is your friend. And I’ve never eaten anywhere where the cheapest thing on the menu is more than 20 bucks and I’ve never seen a server answer their phone or text. I had no idea TGI Fridays had such high standards for their staff. ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/245 "2010-08-08T20:37:30Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > First off, I did work in a restaurant, for 5 years. Is that enough time? Although most of my work was delivering, when things got swamped in the restaurant proper I helped out waiting tables, cooking, working the line to expedite the orders, etc. (this also meant I only waited tables during the most hectic and busy times) > > But there need not be any significant additional mental effort - **mhendo** is correct - this is a _trivial_ software change for a POS system. I used to write more complicated programs over a lunch break. No one is saying the restaurant needs to spend “a bunch of money” to have a different system. Let alone restaurants regularly update their systems anyhow. In the 5 years I worked we changed our system thrice. > > I’ve also admitted several times that the problem is not just the restaurant’s, but the customers. But whereas human idiocy of the customers isn’t going to change anytime soon, a restaurant can change their order process and POS system if they choose to. > > Why not take cash myself to settle things? You’re joking, right? I’m in a strange city where I can’t have my CCW, and you want me to carry around who knows how much cash to try to settle things? What about the 75% of the guests who are paying with their credit cards? Or Traveler’s Cheques? And I’ve already explained why “take turns treating” doesn’t apply. Folks are very liberal with me spending $3,000 of my own company’s money, strangely. > > And the comment about “extra keystrokes” taking time away from the customers is a joke. I go to a lot of restaurants, and servers over the last 5 years are spending a **lot** of time on their mobile phones, texting people, browsing the web - or just low-tech watching the TV at the bar. I’ve had servers _answer their cell phone and talk to a friend_ in the middle of taking an order for my table - yet a few extra keystrokes is the real customer service problem? Even for the servers who don’t do any of those things, claiming the few seconds to use a new POS system is going to reduce the customer service is insulting to our intelligence. > > The argument is made that people will tip less if checks are split: I doubt this highly. Happy, well-heeled corporate clients will tip hugely. It’s not their money, after all. I know, because I’m often one of them. Tips of 30%, even 50% are not rare when everyone’s happy. But piss them off, by creating the argumentative situation I described earlier? And there would probably be little to no tip except for the scam of the “mandatory gratuity.” People are highly emotional animals. I’m representing the customer. Do servers ever stand around a group of 30 at the end of the night and **listen** and **witness** what happens? I doubt it, I really, really do, since the S.O.P. at _innumerable_ restaurants is for the server to dump the check on the table and teleport away, then return in about 5-10 minutes and look shocked - shocked! - that the bill still hasn’t been figured out. > > Good God, at a minimum consider that the current system may not be the best one, and that you should consider a reason to, if not change, have a policy in place to make exceptions? Good servers are smart and creative and again I think they can rise to the challenge of both keeping their job manageable and improving the customer’s experience. I must say I’m somewhat appalled by the negativity shown by servers in this thread - it seems to indicate a low opinion for their own abilities and skills and that of their fellow servers. I certainly don’t sell servers short in intelligence and creativity as individuals or a group, why should you? At my restaurant teenaged girls and boys with no management or business school experience were able to come up with new systems for handing phone orders and pick-ups, which went completely contrary to the “corporate policy” but which worked better in the end for both them and the customers, just by sitting down and thinking about it and getting into the mode of “ **stop being part of the problem, start being part of the solution.** ” > > This also does not explain why there **are, in fact** several restaurants which cheerfully and with no problems provide separate checks. Example - I went to one in D.C. which handled 50 people, separate checks, “No problem!” said the lead server, cheerfully, and guess what - all the food came out at the same time for each table, there were no more than the usual number of mistakes, and everyone was happy. Big smiles. Some people needed plastic surgery to peel the smiles off their faces. I’ve also been to a restaurant where they told us that _by default_ they did separate checks for large groups, but they were happy to put it all on one check if we asked. Clearly _someone_ knows how to do it. Are these things Top Secret? > > And I’ll throw the ball back in the court of the servers - if you’re so convinced that the current “no separate checks” system is best, then put your money where your mouth is, and get rid of the odious “mandatory gratuity.”\* After all, we’re trying to find the best system, right? Let the market decide what’s better - changing your system, or continuing to make customers unhappy. I’ll wager once you see the bickering leading to 10%, 5%, and 0% tips, suddenly there will be this groundswell impetus to change. > > And **mhendo** is again correct - I reckon if one’s restaurant can routinely turn away $3,000 of service in a night, then perhaps one is doing so well they just don’t give a shit any more. Perhaps one’s restaurant should hang a “Mission accomplished!” banner? > > - Should I recount the number of times I’ve had servers come back and **ask the table for a tip** , claiming that “the mandatory gratuity is not a tip?” How stupid do you think your customers are? I guess pretty stupid, since the typical response is for folks to look embarrassed and start digging out cash. :rolleyes: I wish I had worked for one of those managers who put up with that kind of crap. If I had been playing with a cell phone or ignoring my customers I’d have been fired. I’m not doubting it happens, but the reasoning behind restaurants being reluctant to split checks is that in theory it cuts down on time spent on the floor actually being attentive to customers. I’ve noticed a steady decline in customer service over the past 20 years, but when I was working in F&B there were standards. I also tend to boycott places where that sort of thing happens and I’m not shy about calling to complain. Any server dumb enough to let a customer witness them screwing around in the front of the house deserves to suffer for it, imo. ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/246 "2010-08-08T20:43:38Z")
> [@US\_Bureau\_of\_Labor\_Statistics](#): > > > [@Acantha](#): > > > > I agree with you that it would be easier for a computer to divide it. I just find it amusing that people are all about separate checks and making wait staff jump through hoops because it’s \*such a pain in the ass to divide the check themselves, \* yet when it comes time to tip, many are all ‘what the hell do they do to deserve my tip?’ > > > > For starters, they deal with this sort of pain in the ass request on a daily basis because people can’t seem to settle a simple dinner bill with their friends. > > > > People are odd. Not necessarily you, but people in general. > > I don’t get it. You can’t make up your mind whether splitting a check is easy or not. If the customers are doing it, it’s their fault it takes so long and they must be stupid, because it’s the easiest thing in the world. But hey oooo you better not make the waitstaff split them. Then it’s a legitimate _pain in the ass_ or better yet a _workflow problem_. > > SO FIX IT! > > You’re in a fucked industry when customers have legitimate problems\* with the product and the usual response is ‘that’s how we’ve always done it, you must just be stupid’. > > \*For the last time, yes, it is a legitimate problem that if one person in my table is a cheapskate, the rest of us have to ready ourselves for sparring over who pays for what. Especially when the whole point of your industry is doing all the work for people. If I wanted to do shit for myself then I’d eat at my house and not pay the 1000% premium on your food. I’m saying it’s simple for a table full of people who have _no time crunch_ to do. It isn’t simple for a person who has several groups of people to take care of. When you have several groups of people to watch every second counts and anything that messes up your flow can throw off the whole night. One table is wondering why their drinks are empty and you’re standing there waiting for a table full of indecisive customers to hem and haw about their order after they just called you over because they were ‘ready.’ Or 3 tables are waiting for their checks but suddenly the problem table has decided they need theirs split ‘right now.’ You have to decide who you’re going to make happy and who you’re going to have less than happy because suddenly it’s impossible to make everyone happy. If the table that wasn’t ready to order would just say ‘come back in a few minutes’ or the table that needed separate checks _didn’t,_ or could divide it themselves the time crunch would be solved. I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand. I feel no need to fix it, because 1) I no longer work in the industry, and 2) I see no need to split checks. I just tip well and feel sorry for the people who still have to deal with this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/247 "2010-08-09T07:21:34Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Any suggestions, other than just staying on our current course of not eating at the place at all? And is this a unique thing, or does this sort of thing happen more often than I realize? The only times I’ve had waitstaff sitting at a table with customers has been when the customers are also the kind who stay after hours to help clean, which generally means “knowing each other from elsewhere”; the sitting down didn’t happen if there was so much as another customer in the place. What you describe is very bizarre to me. I prefer places where the service is included; I’ve also been known to explain American tipping customs to other Spaniards, including “ok, so since we’re going to order shared portions, that means we should use a higher % to calculate the tips than if we were ordering one portion per person, otherwise the waitress’ look of hatred will be fully justified”. There’s a lot of differences between Spanish and American server behavior which come down to “they’re on tips” (Spanish servers are a lot more likely to share a table or pull tables together, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/248 "2010-08-09T14:37:56Z")
Ugh, some of the posts I multi-quoted got dropped. Sorry for anything that isn’t linking back properly. [QUOTE=US Bureau of Labor Statistics] So glue down a fuckin’ ten cent calculator next to the goddamn cash register if you’re afraid that the same people who added your food once into one receipt can’t add two receipts into one bill. [/quote] So what happens when they transpose two digists on the calculator? > [@](#): > > And if by “inconvenience everyone else,” you mean save thousands of manhours detailing every table’s individual check-splitting, or trying to figure out who’s short so you can come up with your total plus tip target, you’re welcome. All I’m hearing is “I’m too retarded or too lazy to take five seconds to explain to my server how I’d like my check split.” Hey, here’s an idea! Sometimes, when I buy something at a store or online, it’s a present for someone else. I can’t be bothered to ask for a gift receipt or for the item to be packaged separately. So from now on, everything I buy must come with a separate receipt or invoice, and it must all be bagged or shipped separately. How does that sound? [QUOTE=MTCicero] [QUOTE=Shot From Guns] If you can’t afford the total plus a tip, you can’t afford the meal. Period. [/QUOTE] Hogwash. Period. [/QUOTE] Just because you’re a cheap dick doesn’t mean you get to dictate your own rules. The way food service works in this country is that you tip your server based on the price of the meal–generally 10% to 20%, depending on the service, what you ordered, and how stingy you are. These tips are _factored into their income_. If you don’t like it, (a) don’t patronize restaurants that have waitstaff, unless it’s one where they’re explicitly not tipped, or (b) move to a country where tipping for these services isn’t the standard. If you get a meal at a restaurant with tipped staff and don’t leave a tip, unless it’s for reasons of egregious service, you’re essentially stealing from the server and from every other patron of that restaurant. The server literally could not afford to work that job if everybody else did what you did, so you’re getting the service by making \*everyone else \*pay for it. Do I think this is an ideal system? Hell no. I think it’s retarded. IMO we’d be better off if we just bumped up prices, eliminated tips, and had servers paid a straight hourly wage. But as long as this is how the system works, this is what you have to do unless you’re a nasty little thief. > [@MTCicero](#): > > But from what I’ve heard/read servers say, splitting checks when requested to do so is _haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard_. And they consequently _love_ to get all butt-hurt about it. Too fucking bad. It’s part of their job. It’s the customer’s responsibility to state as they order (or before) that they will require split checks. At that point, it’s the server’s job to say “I’m sorry, we can’t do that” (at which point the customer may choose to leave) or to accommodate the customer. > [@Chimera](#): > > If pressed on it, they’ll play stupid, they’ll deny it was theirs, they’ll claim they didn’t realize it was so much money, they’ll blame the server, they’ll ask everyone else to cover it and never pay it back. Why the hell are you still eating out with these people? > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > The argument is made that people will tip less if checks are split: I doubt this highly. Happy, well-heeled corporate clients will tip hugely. I think most of this was a very good post, except for this part. Perhaps it’s because I work in consulting, but my experiences are very different from yours. I can’t think of a work-related meal, either of my own or of anyone else whom I work with, where one person wasn’t picking up the whole check. So while your experience is that large corporate clients will require separate checks, mine is that they’ll all be on the same check. Anytime I’ve seen someone want to split a check, it’s because money is potentially an issue. And often, the people who are \*most \*insistent about splitting a check are the ones who tip the _least_. > [@Acantha](#): > > I’m saying it’s simple for a table full of people who have _no time crunch_ to do. It isn’t simple for a person who has several groups of people to take care of. Yes, it’s a small additional bit of work for the server. But you know what? It’s part of what they’re getting paid to do. Their job is to provide service, and part of that service is to supply the bill in the way that the customer requests, assuming that the request is feasible and presented in a timely fashion (i.e., when ordering instead of when the check is delivered). You know what else makes life harder for servers? Having to actually go to all the tables to take the orders! Why, if only they could just sit at the bar, and then each table could \*come up \*and \*give \*them their orders when they were ready! That would make things \*much \*more efficient! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/249 "2010-08-09T20:10:54Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Ugh, some of the posts I multi-quoted got dropped. Sorry for anything that isn’t linking back properly. > > [QUOTE=US Bureau of Labor Statistics] > So glue down a fuckin’ ten cent calculator next to the goddamn cash register if you’re afraid that the same people who added your food once into one receipt can’t add two receipts into one bill. So what happens when they transpose two digists on the calculator? All I’m hearing is “I’m too retarded or too lazy to take five seconds to explain to my server how I’d like my check split.” Hey, here’s an idea! Sometimes, when I buy something at a store or online, it’s a present for someone else. I can’t be bothered to ask for a gift receipt or for the item to be packaged separately. So from now on, everything I buy must come with a separate receipt or invoice, and it must all be bagged or shipped separately. How does that sound? Just because you’re a cheap dick doesn’t mean you get to dictate your own rules. The way food service works in this country is that you tip your server based on the price of the meal–generally 10% to 20%, depending on the service, what you ordered, and how stingy you are. These tips are _factored into their income_. If you don’t like it, (a) don’t patronize restaurants that have waitstaff, unless it’s one where they’re explicitly not tipped, or (b) move to a country where tipping for these services isn’t the standard. If you get a meal at a restaurant with tipped staff and don’t leave a tip, unless it’s for reasons of egregious service, you’re essentially stealing from the server and from every other patron of that restaurant. The server literally could not afford to work that job if everybody else did what you did, so you’re getting the service by making \*everyone else \*pay for it. Do I think this is an ideal system? Hell no. I think it’s retarded. IMO we’d be better off if we just bumped up prices, eliminated tips, and had servers paid a straight hourly wage. But as long as this is how the system works, this is what you have to do unless you’re a nasty little thief. Too fucking bad. It’s part of their job. It’s the customer’s responsibility to state as they order (or before) that they will require split checks. At that point, it’s the server’s job to say “I’m sorry, we can’t do that” (at which point the customer may choose to leave) or to accommodate the customer. Why the hell are you still eating out with these people? I think most of this was a very good post, except for this part. Perhaps it’s because I work in consulting, but my experiences are very different from yours. I can’t think of a work-related meal, either of my own or of anyone else whom I work with, where one person wasn’t picking up the whole check. So while your experience is that large corporate clients will require separate checks, mine is that they’ll all be on the same check. Anytime I’ve seen someone want to split a check, it’s because money is potentially an issue. And often, the people who are \*most \*insistent about splitting a check are the ones who tip the _least_. > [@Acantha](#): > > I’m saying it’s simple for a table full of people who have _no time crunch_ to do. It isn’t simple for a person who has several groups of people to take care of. Yes, it’s a small additional bit of work for the server. But you know what? It’s part of what they’re getting paid to do. Their job is to provide service, and part of that service is to supply the bill in the way that the customer requests, assuming that the request is feasible and presented in a timely fashion (i.e., when ordering instead of when the check is delivered). \*\*You know what else makes life harder for servers? Having to actually go to all the tables to take the orders! Why, if only they could just sit at the bar, and then each table could \*come up \*and \*give \*them their orders when they were ready! That would make things _much more efficient!_ :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] All I’m saying is, IME people who have the attitude of ‘I don’t give a shit what makes a server’s job more difficult’ are usually the ones who tip for shit. It seems to go together. There’s a certain air of entitlement some people have when they go out that makes them think it’s their right to remind the person waiting their table that they’re somehow beneath them because it’s their job to wait tables, and whenever there’s a vent thread where people in the industry talk about what bugs them those people get all up in arms about how waiters and waitresses should just suck it up. People in other industries don’t catch as much flack for venting because they’re in higher status jobs? Horseshit. It’s just another excuse for people who think they’re better than other people to be nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/250 "2010-08-09T21:04:24Z")
> [@Acantha](#): > > All I’m saying is, IME people who have the attitude of ‘I don’t give a shit what makes a server’s job more difficult’ are usually the ones who tip for shit. It seems to go together. I \*do _give a shit about what makes life harder for waitstaff. If I give them extra requests or if something ends up being difficult about my table or my order, I’ll tip them even better than I usually do._ I’m also unfailingly polite and courteous. However, I also expect service staff to _ **DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS** _, which is to provide me with service. And if you can’t handle something as simple as figuring out a way to split a check when I inform you I’d like it split at the time that I order, because it will cost you an extra 30 fucking seconds, then you need to find a new job. (This, by the way, is the general “you.”) FYI, there’s no need to include all of a post if you’re only responding to a couple of sentences from it. It’s perfectly acceptable to delete everything but the relevant bits. (Deleting off either end of it doesn’t require anything special; deleting something that appears in the middle of what you’re quoting should get an […] or [snip].) \*Which, by the way, is around a 20% baseline–my usual method for calculating a tip is to divide by ten and multiply by two. Your service has to be pretty fucking bad for me to even drop as low as 10-15%, and IIRC only \*once \*have I ever not left a tip at all, and I left an explanation as to why. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/251 "2010-08-10T01:41:57Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > \*Which, by the way, is around a 20% baseline–my usual method for calculating a tip is to divide by ten and multiply by two. Your service has to be pretty fucking bad for me to even drop as low as 10-15%, and IIRC only \*once \*have I ever not left a tip at all, and I left an explanation as to why. Just so you know, this is my baseline tip as well. I didn’t want you to get the impression that I routinely stiff a good (or even halfway decent) server. No, what I was meaning with my declaration of “hogwash” to your OP was that I had the impression that you expected customers to leave a tip _no matter what_, even if they had abysmal service. I see now that I misinterpreted what you were saying, and that we’re pretty much on the same page on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/252 "2010-08-10T04:00:02Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@Acantha](#): > > > > All I’m saying is, IME people who have the attitude of ‘I don’t give a shit what makes a server’s job more difficult’ are usually the ones who tip for shit. It seems to go together. > > I \*do _give a shit about what makes life harder for waitstaff. If I give them extra requests or if something ends up being difficult about my table or my order, I’ll tip them even better than I usually do._ I’m also unfailingly polite and courteous. However, I also expect service staff to _ **DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS** _, which is to provide me with service. And if you can’t handle something as simple as figuring out a way to split a check when I inform you I’d like it split at the time that I order, because it will cost you an extra 30 fucking seconds, then you need to find a new job. (This, by the way, is the general “you.”) Is that better? 😛 _you_ may be that rare customer who tips well and is the exception. If you were to poll random F&B people though, you would find the bigger the hassle from a customer, the smaller the tip as a rule. The general attitude of people who who say ‘it’s their fucking job’ is that it’s perfectly OK to be shitty to waitstaff because they can’t do shit about it and the customer has the power to withhold the tip for any reason they want. And they usually do because that’s what they planned to do along, it’s a power trip. They get off on treating someone like shit who has no way to fight back. Imagine if you took that attitude with any other profession. Take your car to a mechanic and refuse to tell them what the problem is. ‘You figure it out, _it’s your fucking job._’ But nobody is going to do that because in the long run it costs _them_ more. You don’t go to an attorney and withhold information and make their job more difficult, because, again, in the long run, it hurts _you._ You certainly wouldn’t neglect to tell your babysitter about your child’s food allergies and just hope they figured them out, since after all, _it’s their fucking job_ to take care of them, would you? But _some_ people feel perfectly justified in making servers’ jobs more difficult _just because they can._ Waiters and waitresses are the only ones who have no recourse when people are chickenshits, they just have to suck it up and hope their decent customers make up the difference. I had a lot of fun working in F&B, but I certainly saw the uglier side of human nature on many nights. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/253 "2010-08-10T15:38:45Z")
In my experience, whenever there is a “gratuities included” or “no separate checks” or “no substitutions” or something it almost always means that, in that establishment, the servers were getting fucked. You might be the best diner around and these things inconvenience you, but you don’t work there. I can almost guarantee if there is “no separate checks” that’s the reason. The owner might say “it’s too hard” but what he really means is his staff were getting regularly fucked over and his best staff were quitting and finding better work elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/254 "2010-08-10T15:43:26Z")
I’ve never seen “no substitutions” where it has anything to do with servers getting screwed, as opposed to the kitchen not wanting to do it. And if any of those things are on the menu, I got no problem with it. No gratuities tends to cost the server if I am eating, because 99% of the time I would tip more than that amount. No separate checks doesn’t affect me because I don’t want them, but I do think it behooves a restaurant to do them if the customer asks in advance. No substitutions I can live with, but it makes me very wary of what is going on in the kitchen and whether they are simply reheating prepared stuff. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/255 "2010-08-10T15:44:45Z")
> [@Acantha](#): > > Imagine if you took that attitude with any other profession. > > Take your car to a mechanic and refuse to tell them what the problem is. ‘You figure it out, _it’s your fucking job._’ But nobody is going to do that because in the long run it costs _them_ more. A better analogy: you take your car to a mechanic for a new set of tires and an oil change and tell him you’d like to pay for them separately. Does he: [ol] [li]Say “sure,” and either create two invoices or a single invoice with separate totals, or[/li] [li]Dig in his heels, insist there is NO WAY he accommodate you… it just isn’t worth his time… it _cannot be done_ with a simple calculator and pen/paper… it would take seconds, perhaps _minutes_ to accomplish… what is he, a _miracle worker_???[/li][/ol] The answer I received would significantly influence my decision to use, return to, or recommend our hypothetical mechanic to others in the future. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/256 "2010-08-10T15:57:16Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I’ve never seen “no substitutions” where it has anything to do with servers getting screwed, as opposed to the kitchen not wanting to do it. And if any of those things are on the menu, I got no problem with it. > > No gratuities tends to cost the server if I am eating, because 99% of the time I would tip more than that amount. > > No separate checks doesn’t affect me because I don’t want them, but I do think it behooves a restaurant to do them if the customer asks in advance. > > No substitutions I can live with, but it makes me very wary of what is going on in the kitchen and whether they are simply reheating prepared stuff. Thing is, on these boards people will always say that if the particular problem isn’t the waiter’s fault, they won’t dock the tip. In reality, the server is the restaurant’s representative and they’ll get docked because the customer doesn’t like the carpet, the font on the menu, the music playing, or anything else that displeases them. If there is a “no substitutions” policy it might be because the servers screw it up, could be the kitchen screws it up and the server pays, or it could be there’s a regular gaggle of old ladies who like to play “substitute every single thing in the dish.” Who knows? Owners generally don’t institute inconveniencing policies until they pretty much have to. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/257 "2010-08-10T16:19:19Z")
> [@Acantha](#): > > Imagine if you took that attitude with any other profession. > > Take your car to a mechanic and refuse to tell them what the problem is. ‘You figure it out, _it’s your fucking job._’ But nobody is going to do that because in the long run it costs _them_ more. > > You don’t go to an attorney and withhold information and make their job more difficult, because, again, in the long run, it hurts _you._ > > You certainly wouldn’t neglect to tell your babysitter about your child’s food allergies and just hope they figured them out, since after all, _it’s their fucking job_ to take care of them, would you? Your analogy is really flawed. It’s not like anyone here is getting approached by a waiter who asks for your order and they reply “it’s your fucking job to figure it out! Now go to the kitchen and get me some food!” Seriously, every single one of your examples involved the withholding of informaiton. How is a request to split a check the same? Where is information being withheld? My household budget involves allocating certain money towards distinct categories. In order to keep track of it when going shopping, we’ll often separate out groceries from household. We’ll then tell the checkout person that we’re paying cash for these products and we’re paying by credit card for these products. Not once has the person sighed, rolled her eyes and said “but that’s going to take me an extra thirty seconds to do!” It just gets done. And I’m not even tipping her for the effort! ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/258 "2010-08-10T16:24:37Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > - Should I recount the number of times I’ve had servers come back and **ask the table for a tip** , claiming that “the mandatory gratuity is not a tip?” How stupid do you think your customers are? I guess pretty stupid, since the typical response is for folks to look embarrassed and start digging out cash. :rolleyes: Last night I discussed, at length, this thread’s current thrust with my buddy who was a server for years. First off, he said that the whole separate-checks-are-monumentally-complicated-and-time-consuming thing is a joke. He said that back when he was a server at T.G.I. Friday’s, for instance, he had _no trouble whatsoever_ utilizing the POS system to accommodate requests for separate checks, even for large parties. And this was over ten years ago. And he said it was similarly easy to do at every other establishment he’s ever worked at in the capacity as a waiter. He said that it should never be a problem, provided the guests let their server know up front that they desire separate checks. Now, as to the issue of a mandatory gratuity for large groups, he says that’s pretty much here to stay, and is a necessity for one reason (and this is how he put it): black people. He said, again, that black people were the absolute shittiest tippers he ever had to deal with. He said that it was routine for them to tip $0.07 on a $300 bill. And this was, of course, after having run the server ragged during their entire stay at the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/259 "2010-08-10T18:07:45Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > No, what I was meaning with my declaration of “hogwash” to your OP was that I had the impression that you expected customers to leave a tip _no matter what_, even if they had abysmal service. I see now that I misinterpreted what you were saying, and that we’re pretty much on the same page on this matter. Yeah, my problem is with people who don’t factor the tip into what they can afford, assuming good or at least adequate service. > [@Acantha](#): > > The general attitude of people who who say ‘it’s their fucking job’ is that it’s perfectly OK to be shitty to waitstaff because they can’t do shit about it and the customer has the power to withhold the tip for any reason they want. And yet, none of that is relevant to **WHAT WE’RE DISCUSSING HERE** , you stupid bint, which is \*\*SPLITTING CHECKS \*\*when the request is made at a reasonable time (i.e., before or during ordering). Which, unless the restaurant has a policy against it, **IS PART OF THE WAITPERSON’S JOB, I.E., PROVIDING FUCKING SERVICE**. \*\*SERIOUS BUSINESS \*\*caps and bold because apparently you can’t read what I type like a normal person. > [@MTCicero](#): > > Now, as to the issue of a mandatory gratuity for large groups, he says that’s pretty much here to stay, and is a necessity for one reason (and this is how he put it): black people. He said, again, that black people were the absolute shittiest tippers he ever had to deal with. He said that it was routine for them to tip $0.07 on a $300 bill. And this was, of course, after having run the server ragged during their entire stay at the restaurant. Oh, well \*everybody \*knows that. Funny story, actually–it’s how Black people get their skin color. It isn’t really melanin. They actually suck all the pigment out of dollar bills. But they can’t control it, so it happens at really random times, so suddenly they’re left with a wallet that’s half-full of worthless pieces of paper. It’s quite embarassing, really. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/260 "2010-08-10T18:25:42Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Last night I discussed, at length, this thread’s current thrust with my buddy who was a server for years. First off, he said that the whole separate-checks-are-monumentally-complicated-and-time-consuming thing is a joke. He said that back when he was a server at T.G.I. Friday’s, for instance, he had _no trouble whatsoever_ utilizing the POS system to accommodate requests for separate checks, even for large parties. And this was over ten years ago. And he said it was similarly easy to do at every other establishment he’s ever worked at in the capacity as a waiter. He said that it should never be a problem, provided the guests let their server know up front that they desire separate checks. I usually go to tiny neighbourhood places, somewhere between 10 and 18 tables, some don’t even have POS systems (bills are on carbon paper or on these tiny yellow pads, and in a handwritten code for each item), some use old relics of cash registers with buttons for each menu item, so I know not every restaurant has a POS which makes it easy to split a bill - but as I said before, even if it is not easy, a server should always accommodate the request. That being said, my favorite pub though has a wonderful POS, and they can easily split bills, My hubby and I are always on our own tab at our table, and when quite a few friends are meeting up or you are meeting Cheapy McPennyPincher for a pint - you need your own tab! All they do is drag items on the touch screen when they split a tab. I sure wish that POS existed 15 years ago when I waited tables. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357.md?page=14)