# Waiter/waitress rants **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357 "2010-05-31T06:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/101 "2010-06-02T04:01:03Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > So then, by that rationale (shitty pay equals tip), I’m to assume that you do, in fact, tip your barristas. Moreover, that you tip the staff at McDonald’s, Taco Bell, et al., as well whenever you give them your patronage? If you haven’t noticed…the people advocating the flotilla are disappearing. Which means less reality tv interference. Win/win. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/102 "2010-06-02T04:08:30Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > When I decide how much to tip, all I take into account is how much work waiting on my table was (as in, home many people were there, and how much was ordered), and how good of a job the waiter did. Here’s the thing: Let’s say you’ve got four people having dinner, and they each order $25 worth of stuff for a total of $100. The current “norms”, according to the SDMB, is 20%. But, Having worked in hospitality, I can tell you that there isn’t $20 worth of work involved in serving four people. Somehow I suspect that if you offered restaurant and bar staff in the US the option of being paid a flat $20 an hour (about the going rate here in Australia) with no tips allowed, surprisingly fewer of them than you’d expect would take the offer up. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/103 "2010-06-02T06:20:37Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > So then, by that rationale (shitty pay equals tip), I’m to assume that you do, in fact, tip your barristas. Moreover, that you tip the staff at McDonald’s, Taco Bell, et al., as well whenever you give them your patronage? > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > If you haven’t noticed…the people advocating the flotilla are disappearing. Which means less reality tv interference. Win/win. So . . . do you get headaches from sitting next to the vent spewing toxic fumes all day long? And if people pay extra can they request (and obtain) their answers in a coherent and linear form? Also – Hey, you know what? This isn’t the time or the place. You should go start an “Ask the Oracle” thread. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/104 "2010-06-02T06:36:02Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m pretty sure [Ruffino’s](http://www.ruffinosfw.com/) could make a sandwich, as they have excellent bread. . Oh man…I miss ruffinos. I used to take my wife there for our anniversary every year. Haven’t been able to afford it in a long long long time. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/105 "2010-06-02T10:14:43Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Very good point. I do as well, especially during major winter storms, since I have great compassion for anyone who has to get out in that kind of shit and bring me my supper when I’m to afraid to go out in that kind of shit. _Especially_ around here (SW Ohio), where snow/ice removal is a crap shoot at best. Heh. I’m near Clarksburg, WV, so I know what you mean! Now, the town I live in is so tiny that there _is_ no pizza delivery! But we do have a couple of diners that deliver, and we ordered from them pretty frequently when the weather sucked this past winter (one in particular is close enough that the delivery-person often _walks_ my order over if the roads are bad). I tipped big-time in snow storms! ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/106 "2010-06-02T12:11:02Z")
I’ve noticed that many threads concerning waiters and waitresses always lead to stupid, unnecessary debate. Why is waiting such a hot topic, like religion and politics? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/107 "2010-06-02T12:51:35Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > When I decide how much to tip, all I take into account is how much work waiting on my table was (as in, home many people were there, and how much was ordered), and how good of a job the waiter did. > > I’m not concerned with how much the waiter makes, what type of restaurant I’m at, or even the dollar amount of the bill. And I’m definitely not concerned with what’s customary, or “social norms”, because that’s just stupid. If you don’t pay any attention to what’s customary, you can’t complain if your actions are misunderstood. For example, if your private and special tipping algorithm computes a tip for what you consider good service that turns out to be only 5% of your bill, your waiter is not going to interpret that as a good tip from a good customer; he’ll interpret that as getting stiffed by a mingy cheapskate. Because the customary tipping rate is at least 15-20% for good service. > [@emcee2k](#): > > And for the record, I generally leave a good tip compared to “social norms” The fact that you’re aware of that, and that you feel the need to tell us that, pretty much destroys your credibility in claiming that you completely disregard “social norms” concerning tipping. Honestly, I really had no idea how many people seem to regard routine tipping decisions as a personal power trip or a chance to express their individuality and freedom from tiresome social expectations. My heart goes out to all the waitresses and waiters who have to deal with such people. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/108 "2010-06-02T15:12:21Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Jeez, man, the economy must be really bad if you have to work two jobs just to make minimum wage. Papa Johns drivers around here make eleven dollars an hour plus full gas. That’s better than I make. Learn to read, please. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/109 "2010-06-02T15:59:38Z")
> [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](#): > > About those added fees to online delivery pizza places: > > We asked the Poppa John’s driver about it. He said he definitely doesn’t see a penny out of that $2.50. Furthermore, I believe it is Domino’s who, in addition to the $2.50 delivery fee, also have a $1.00 \*online order \*fee. Also not to the driver. > > So, what? Just because your company has made the investment into technology and bought a recycled laptop so you can take orders online and I’ve got to foot the cost of your business as well as give you patronage? Good luck with that. That’s the cost of doing business. I gave up on Dominos when I was told, in complete seriousness, that it was cheaper to pay for 2 pizzas then to use a buy one get one free coupon. Absolute idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/110 "2010-06-02T16:14:03Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Papa Johns drivers around here make eleven dollars an hour plus full gas. That’s better than I make. Learn to read, please. I’m gonna be driving pizzas this summer. I interviewed at Papa Johns, but didn’t get the job, presumably as I’ll be heading back to school after the summer. My notes from the interview: “$4.25/hr when driving (7.25/hr when in store), plus $1.15/delivery, then tips ~$10/hr + gas” for the evening rush a few days a week. I’ll be working at Dominos, and I"m not exactly sure on their pay. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/111 "2010-06-02T16:18:52Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > I understand that. I’m sure they understand that. The point is that the drivers were making the same before and after the institution of these fees. The Papa John’s driver even noted that his tips had decreased after the fee was added, probably due to people believing that the delivery fee was paid to the driver. The pizza business used to offer free delivery. They then changed to charge $2.50 for delivery. The amount the driver was paid did not change. I fail to see why I should feel sorry that the driver did not receive a $2.50/delivery raise in pay. It sucks that their tips decreased though. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/112 "2010-06-02T16:51:35Z")
I came here for the waiter/waitress rants. Where the hell are they? Entertain me! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/113 "2010-06-02T16:58:28Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Papa Johns drivers around here make eleven dollars an hour plus full gas. That’s better than I make. Learn to read, please. I did read. Are you unable to read what you wrote? > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I can certainly say pizza-delivery tipping isn’t universal around here. Some people do, some don’t, and I haven’t seen the slightest difference in delivery times or service. Which is the problem: the driver didn’t do anything particularly for me. He came to my house and left me a box. For this service he is paid as much as I am on the better of my two jobs. He offered me no special service, served me in no significant way, and did precisely jack to help with my meal. His entire function in the mix is to drop off a package, and is chiefly distinguished from FedEx by working evenings. > > That kind of service simply isn’t worth much, and the idea nthat I should pay extra for the privelege doesn’t amuse me. Moreover, while I might be willing to tip, I am not going to tip AND pay a “delivery fee”. You said absolutely nothing about what the drivers make. Only that he is paid better than you on the better of your two jobs. As most drivers are paid less than minimum wage, being considered a tipped job, I insinuated that you had to work two jobs just to make minimum wage. I call complete bullshit on $11/hour, by the way. I’m sympathetic to food service employees, but as a manager I’d have to be insane to pay anyone that base rate. If they’re making $11/hr, that’s including tips, which means that by withholding yours they’re actually not making that kind of money and thus invalidates your whole high horse position. ---
**Author:** ![RedWood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f08c70/32.png) [@RedWood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedWood)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/114 "2010-06-02T17:00:19Z")
once I tried to wait tables at a smallish coffee-and-sandwiches place… I discovered I could handle five tables, but not six ☹ since then, I have been unfailingly kind to servers, even when they are grumpy. I tip 20% for food service, a dollar for every bar drink… which includes specialty coffee: I worked for one of the big guys, that espresso machine takes talent! my Dad taught me that if you could not tip, you stay home. I have one dear friend who does not understand tipping (One dollar for FOUR drinks???) so I slip $$ to the waitperson when he is not looking 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RedWood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f08c70/32.png) [@RedWood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedWood)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/115 "2010-06-02T17:02:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I came here for the waiter/waitress rants. Where the hell are they? Entertain me! try here: [http://waiterrant.net/](http://waiterrant.net/) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/116 "2010-06-02T17:09:39Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I did read. Are you unable to read what you wrote?You said absolutely nothing about what the drivers make. Only that he is paid better than you on the better of your two jobs. As most drivers are paid less than minimum wage, being considered a tipped job, I insinuated that you had to work two jobs just to make minimum wage. > > I call complete bullshit on $11/hour, by the way. I’m sympathetic to food service employees, but as a manager I’d have to be insane to pay anyone that base rate. If they’re making $11/hr, that’s including tips, which means that by withholding yours they’re actually not making that kind of money and thus invalidates your whole high horse position. A previous post, and no, that does not include tips. At all. Yes, this is straight from multiple people I personally know and associate with regularly, who work for a living as Papa Johns pizza makers and drivers, to my ears. This is for people wbho do it as a living, so they might get more than the random joe with no work history. But I can confirm they do it, get paid that, and live on that money. I get paid minimum at one job and the same at another, with fewer hours and no tips. I also know what you insinuated. I simply didn’t give a shit since you apparently assume I am lying, and therefore we have nothing to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/117 "2010-06-02T19:15:15Z")
I have a question for the OP, if she’s still reading (or anyone else, actually): My wife and I used to frequent (and I mean _really_ frequent - sometimes two to three times a week) a close-by Tex Mex place run by actual Mexicans. Obviously, we loved the food, and since we dined there so often, we got to know the co-owner and his brothers, and several of the waitstaff. One of these waiters was particularly outgoing and loquacious, and would chat with us for five or ten minutes (or more) whenever he’d wait on us (which was pretty frequently). We thought nothing of this, other than that he was a nice guy (as was pretty well everybody who worked at that establishment at that time), and he never got overbearing, as he always had other tables to take care of. We _loved_ this place. After a while, the co-owner and his brothers opened up a newer location in a city about 40 minutes away from us, and they consequently promoted the waiter to the manager’s position, and were rarely seen after that. Well. As soon as the waiter became the manager, his chats with us started venturing into overbearing territory. A quite typical visit to the to the place would have us walking in, being seated, and, within five minutes, the new manager/former waiter would come over to our booth, _sit down with us_ on either my wife’s or my side, and just start shooting the shit. And shooting it. And shooting it. Whenever the waiter would come by to take our order, he’d just keep sitting there and talking to us. _Whenever our food would come out_ - he’d make no move to get up and leave us to eat our meal in peace. And we were not the only ones he’d do this to. We saw him do it to countless others. And apparently, the majority of the people love it, as he’s still running the place, and the place is crowded much more often than not. Needless to say, we stopped eating there quite some time ago. So, my question: Without seeming like a dick, what’s the best way to shoo him away, should we ever want to go back to this place (and, dammit, we do, since the food is pretty amazing, but this guy’s still there)? What’s the best way to send this guy the message that we don’t mind catching up for a few minutes, but after that, we want to be left alone? I mean, I’ve kind of said that once or twice to him, saying that I needed to talk to the wife about something or other, and he’d give us this pantomime-reproachful look, and say something to the effect of “Tsst. Whatever.” Hey, but it _worked_. It’s just that I felt, despite being as polite as ever and saying it with a smile, more than a little bit like a dick. Any suggestions, other than just staying on our current course of not eating at the place at all? And is this a unique thing, or does this sort of thing happen more often than I realize? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/118 "2010-06-02T19:21:48Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > A previous post, and no, that does not include tips. At all. Yes, this is straight from multiple people I personally know and associate with regularly, who work for a living as Papa Johns pizza makers and drivers, to my ears. This is for people wbho do it as a living, so they might get more than the random joe with no work history. But I can confirm they do it, get paid that, and live on that money. I get paid minimum at one job and the same at another, with fewer hours and no tips. > > I also know what you insinuated. I simply didn’t give a shit since you apparently assume I am lying, and therefore we have nothing to talk about. Give it up Bosstone… This is similar to when I was a teacher making shit wages and having to listen to “I know x teacher and she makes a bazillion dollars a year so you, bduck, are grossly overpaid!” stories. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/119 "2010-06-02T19:47:45Z")
I have bad news **MTCicero** I think the only way to get to eat the food and enjoy the time talking to your wife is to continue “having things to discuss” to shoo him away. Some people just don’t take less abrupt social cues well. I guess the other alternative would be finding out when a slightly more favorite customer is going to be there and going then. Surely he can’t be in two places at once. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357/120 "2010-06-02T20:12:01Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Give it up Bosstone… > > This is similar to when I was a teacher making shit wages and having to listen to “I know x teacher and she makes a bazillion dollars a year so you, bduck, are grossly overpaid!” stories. Amazingly, I not only do not particularly judge people in completely different situations, I do even care to know about them. This is precisely the same courtesy I demand from you, pathetic wrtech though you be. In my situation, I can see how much they are making and need no justification to not pay them a tip over and bove their other pay on the pizzas I do not in fact order. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiter-waitress-rants/541357.md?page=7)