# Waiters & waitresses: are blacks cheap tippers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290 "2004-06-08T15:55:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ShadiRoxan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@ShadiRoxan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadiRoxan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/41 "2004-06-08T23:43:47Z")
The time I spent waiting tables, the following were the tables that didn’t tip as well: Church groups Teenagers Black people Teachers Sunday lunch diners Really old people (normally 70+ years old) Probably a few more groups that I’ve forgotten. A lot of servers might think that they are giving the same service to every one, but they probably aren’t. I’ve been guilty of it myself. We’re all human, we’re going to prejudge and we don’t always have good days where we want to give it our all for just a few bucks. There have been several times where I have been stiffed by any of the various groups mentioned. There have been many other where I’ve gotten some of the best tips. One of the most memorable tables I had was a party of seven and a baby that was a black church group. They ran me like crazy, but were polite. As their meal was winding down a few of the guys at one end struck up a conversation with me. My coworkers kept telling me that I needed to add 15% since they were a party, thinking that I was going to get stiffed if I didn’t. They also thought I was crazy taking the time to talk to them. The check ended up being around $100. They gave me $140 and said to keep the change. ---
**Author:** ![Burrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Burrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burrido)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/42 "2004-06-09T00:37:08Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > I wonder if blacks tip black servers better, and whether whites tip white servers better. > > My parents tip Italian servers higher, so I don’t think either question is out of scope. > > Most of our delivery drivers who stopped delivering at work (I’m continuing on from my earlier post) are white grunger types, who have decided to stop delivering since they get no tips from the black customers. > > I think there is definitely an issue with whether the patrons identify with the server/servicer. My mother is this way. She is a total cheapwad when it comes to tipping. Maybe, and I mean MAYBE, she will tip a dollar. But if the server is asian, or Hmong, to be specific she will tip $20 bucks for a 30 dollar bill. Anyone hear that segment on NPR a couple weeks back about how in one study they did, they found out that the worse they treated customers, the more they actually got in tips? I don’t mean they were blantantly rude, but they would short, concise, to the point, and unemotional as well as being very assertive. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/43 "2004-06-09T00:39:16Z")
This thread makes me kinda sad because I always tip, and when I can–generously. My poor dad–knowing about the stereotype–overcompensates by tipping very well. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/44 "2004-06-09T00:50:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This thread makes me kinda sad because I always tip, and when I can–generously. My poor dad–knowing about the stereotype–overcompensates by tipping very well. Actually, this bears notice - when I have been tipped by black diners, it was almost always WAY more of a tip than would be “standard” for any other diners. I never found older people to be bad tippers, nor did I have any particular problems with church groups. Very few recent immigrants that I know of, so I can’t say much of anything about that. I did once wait on a deaf couple who informed me at the beginning of the meal that they could lip-read, then tipped me very well and said they were doing so because they could tell I wasn’t shouting at them. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/45 "2004-06-09T01:47:12Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > As someone who danced in strip clubs for over seven years, I will say yes, in my experience blacks are not very good tippers. In fact, it was so bad that I wouldn’t even go up to most black men, not because they were scary or bad or that I’m racist, just because I knew they’d want me to do flips for one buck. > > And I heard this from other dancers as well. In fact, some of the black girls were even more reluctant to approach them because the guys thought they’d do even more for the buck. Heh, I knew one black girl who had a “white guy only” philosophy. Maybe not right, but that’s how it was. > > In seven years there were a few exceptions, but not many. FWIW, I’m a dancer too, and _none_ of the black girls I work with will approach or sit with black guys, for much the same reasons. The majority of them will only dance for middle-aged white businessmen. ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/46 "2004-06-09T01:58:41Z")
I used to be a pizza delivery boy. I never noticed any bad tips from black people. What I did notice were bad tips from the following people: poor people (including college students) and rich people (if I had a dollar for every time some guy in a big nice house wrote a check for the exact amount of the food…). ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/47 "2004-06-09T02:10:23Z")
Way back in the early 70s I was a cab driver in NYC. The first year I worked everyone tipped me. Then there was a fare hike and all the whites continued tipping but only 2/3 of the blacks. I believe this corresponded to some extent with a shift in the civil rights movement away from integration and toward separatism. There simply was no market for racist blacks prior to 1970. ---
**Author:** ![mike1dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@mike1dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mike1dog)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/48 "2004-06-09T02:30:48Z")
> [@](#): > > And no matter what color their skin, in my experience, teachers are the worst tippers. My mother, a teacher, goes out occasionally with some teacher friends of hers. She was always embarrassed by the amount the others would tip and would make it up with her tip. For example she told me once that when the bill was twenty-eight fifty, the other two wanted them to each put in ten bucks with the remainder for the tip. ---
**Author:** ![pyrrthon1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@pyrrthon1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pyrrthon1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/49 "2004-06-09T03:02:11Z")
I only waited on tables for one week so I never had enough customers to form a judgement, but I have been a cook and the waitresses all dread waiting on two groups: blacks and old jews. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/50 "2004-06-09T03:33:01Z")
My theory is that it has more to do with culture. (most) blacks were probably raised to be a little more carefull with their money. Because lets face it; It wasn’t too long ago blacks weren’t making shit while the white people were. Now that might not be quite as true today, but still, most blacks were raised with parents who did have to live through those tumultuous times thus passing the animus on to their offspring. Seriously, I went to Popeye’s the other day with a black friend of mine. He started whining to the lady that his chicken pieces were to small. To my amazment the lady actually gave him another piece for free!! It’s like WOW why don’t I ever think to do stuff like that? ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/51 "2004-06-09T10:15:16Z")
> [@chula](#): > > On a side note, I can tell you from working as a waitress is a tourist place in Europe (where I made my wages primarily in tips, as in the U.S.) that English and German customers were bad tippers. Americans were, not surprisingly, the best and therefore my favorites. Not to go too far off the point, but there’s a reason for this. Tipping in the UK is done as a courtesy - not to make up deficient wages. We have a minimum wage for all employees over 18 of c. $6/hr (slightly lower for those under 18). Tipping is therefore in recognition of good service and is just ‘good manners’. Typically, staff are told to ‘keep the change’ rather than specifically be given a good tip - although I was told that a basic rule of thumb was to aim for 10-15%. I’d be interested to hear from anyone in Europe on their expectations as staff. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/52 "2004-06-09T11:06:11Z")
I was thinking … OK, Americans tip mostly because the waiter is getting paid what? $2.10 an hour? The restaurant owners assume that the customers will pick up the slack with tips. The good waiters will be rewarded, the sucky ones won’t. (This of course isn’t always the case.) However I can see where the US way of doing it is maybe better. I have a friend, female, who has a sparkling personality, a pretty face and a nice body (yes, she busted ass too and was a damn good waitress but let’s be real: unattractive waitresses rarely are tipped well, no matter how good they are). She used to CLEAN UP waiting tables, big time. On weekends, $80-100 a night. If we had a “normal” minimum wage for waitresses here, maybe she wouldn’t have because everyone would know she was already getting paid a semi-decent wage. As it stood she was averaging at LEAST $10 an hour, most of the time more. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/53 "2004-06-09T14:43:34Z")
I am cringing at the moment. I am from the UK and have travelled to quite a few states in the US, and am certain I have always been, in US terms, a cruddy tipper. :eek: At least I have just learnt something, and will hopefully be able to do some reparation next time I travel. For future reference, what about fast food joints and other shops. Is tipping expected? Also, do waiters/waitresses come to expect cruddy tips from Brits or indeed other Europeans, as some appear to from black people? ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/54 "2004-06-09T14:54:59Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#): > > I am cringing at the moment. I am from the UK and have travelled to quite a few states in the US, and am certain I have always been, in US terms, a cruddy tipper. :eek: At least I have just learnt something, and will hopefully be able to do some reparation next time I travel. > > For future reference, what about fast food joints and other shops. Is tipping expected? > > Also, do waiters/waitresses come to expect cruddy tips from Brits or indeed other Europeans, as some appear to from black people? Yes, this is a better way of saying what I was getting at. I went to the US (Auburn, AL) for 3 months when I was a student. It was about a month in when someone commented on the tipping thing - we (the girl I went with) just left whatever change we had - as you do over here, not realising that was frowned upon. > [@Abbie](#): > > However I can see where the US way of doing it is maybe better. I have a friend, female, who has a sparkling personality, a pretty face and a nice body (yes, she busted ass too and was a damn good waitress but let’s be real: unattractive waitresses rarely are tipped well, no matter how good they are). She used to CLEAN UP waiting tables, big time. On weekends, $80-100 a night. If we had a “normal” minimum wage for waitresses here, maybe she wouldn’t have because everyone would know she was already getting paid a semi-decent wage. As it stood she was averaging at LEAST $10 an hour, most of the time more. But surely a bad thing for everyone else (less good looking, etc)… I still think that if employers paid more to start with this wouldn’t be an issue. Mind you, it’s only like adding tax on to goods at the checkout I guess… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/55 "2004-06-09T14:55:01Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > I was thinking … > > OK, Americans tip mostly because the waiter is getting paid what? $2.10 an hour? The restaurant owners assume that the customers will pick up the slack with tips. The good waiters will be rewarded, the sucky ones won’t. (This of course isn’t always the case.) > > However I can see where the US way of doing it is maybe better. I have a friend, female, who has a sparkling personality, a pretty face and a nice body (yes, she busted ass too and was a damn good waitress but let’s be real: unattractive waitresses rarely are tipped well, no matter how good they are). She used to CLEAN UP waiting tables, big time. On weekends, $80-100 a night. If we had a “normal” minimum wage for waitresses here, maybe she wouldn’t have because everyone would know she was already getting paid a semi-decent wage. As it stood she was averaging at LEAST $10 an hour, most of the time more. My top hourly wage as a server was $2.36 (a giant raise from the $2.01 I started at 15 years earlier.) The way I looked at it, I was a contractor. I worked IN the restaurant, FOR the customers - many times I got a zero paycheck because my taxes were taken out of that hourly wage, based on my reported tips. And before anyone jumps in and says that servers can “skate” on their tip reporting, that may have been true years ago but it’s not now, since credit cards came into popular use - the IRS isn’t exactly stupid. So, because I relied almost totally on my tips, and tipping is still regarded as a traditional courtesy rather than an actual wage, I busted ass to make sure I COULD live on my tips. The last year I worked full-time as a waitress, I earned $40K. For the record, I’m not that cute, and I doubt very much my looks had anything to do with my income. If you think about it, there aren’t many other jobs where your employer gets to decide on a job-by-job basis how much you get paid. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/56 "2004-06-09T15:00:46Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > If you think about it, there aren’t many other jobs where your employer gets to decide on a job-by-job basis how much you get paid. But the customer \*\*isn’t \*\* your employer - the restaurant (or whatever) is. If the customer’s are often happy then bonus payments etc could come into play. Incidentally, I notice in the UK that tip jars are more common. Certainly this was the case at the hotel I worked at. Tips are shared amongst all relevant staff (so kitchen staff, etc also get a cut). After all, it’s not just the waiting staff that make the eating experience a pleasant one, or not. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/57 "2004-06-09T15:13:20Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > But the customer \*\*isn’t \*\* your employer - the restaurant (or whatever) is. If the customer’s are often happy then bonus payments etc could come into play. Nope. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I work for whoever is paying me, and in the case of food service, that would be the customer. It’s a commissioned sales job. Every guest seated in my station is my employer, I work for THEM. If I lived in Australia, where the restaurants pay a living wage, that would not be the case, and I WOULD regard tips as a lovely courtesy. Here, though, they were my sole income. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/58 "2004-06-09T15:16:13Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > Nope. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I work for whoever is paying me, and in the case of food service, that would be the customer. It’s a commissioned sales job. Every guest seated in my station is my employer, I work for THEM. If I lived in Australia, where the restaurants pay a living wage, that would not be the case, and I WOULD regard tips as a lovely courtesy. Here, though, they were my sole income. I see what you mean - but I was making the point that it shouldn’t be left to the whim of every customer to pay your wage. That should be guaranteed. Otherwise, after all, you could freelance your services to anyone who passed by, advertise from your kitchen, etc. with the same results… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/59 "2004-06-09T15:19:59Z")
> [@Cerri](#): > > FWIW, I’m a dancer too, and _none_ of the black girls I work with will approach or sit with black guys, for much the same reasons. The majority of them will only dance for middle-aged white businessmen. Do blacks typically expect more “mileage”? ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290/60 "2004-06-09T16:33:23Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#): > > For future reference, what about fast food joints and other shops. Is tipping expected? It depends on what you mean by “fast food joints and other shops”. In places such as diners, you are expected to tip. In places like McDonalds, no. (And management may actually prohibit employees from accepting tips.) In places where you just walk up to a window and order food, no–but there may be a tip jar present, so you might want to drop in your change or a dollar, but even that’s still optional. At a coffee shop a la Starbucks, a similar “tip jar” guideline applies–but if you ask for a complicated drink, or if the barista is particularly good, I’d recommend tipping a buck or so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiters-waitresses-are-blacks-cheap-tippers/249290.md?page=4)