# waiting \[for Supreme Court decision on health care law\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510 "2012-06-18T13:51:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/281 "2012-06-28T14:15:33Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > An interesting and quick read about the decision, and what Mondays outburst from Justice Scalia might actually mean over at [TPM](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/06/ive_wondered_too.php?ref=fpblg). Apparently this analysis was correct. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/282 "2012-06-28T14:17:48Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Apparently the USSC doesn’t agree with you. The USSC just struck down the individual mandate according to CNN. Fox news is saying the mandate has been upheld, not under the commerce act but as a tax. Looks like CNN got it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/283 "2012-06-28T14:18:10Z")
AP and CNN reported opposite outcomes on Twitter. Ooops. I wish they would wait a minute or two, and be accurate, rather than first. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/284 "2012-06-28T14:18:53Z")
Dewey Defeats Mandate! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/285 "2012-06-28T14:19:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Fox news is saying the mandate has been upheld, not under the commerce act but as a tax. Looks like CNN got it wrong. As did you. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/286 "2012-06-28T14:22:23Z")
CNN is saying the mandate survived as a tax, and the rest of the law is being upheld. If that’s the case, it seems like pretty much everybody would get what they wanted, right? The law stands, it loses the name “mandate”, and people are taxed if they don’t have medical insurance. The only losers are the insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/287 "2012-06-28T14:26:22Z")
The insurance companies aren’t losers. The law will push a significant number of people into the market. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/288 "2012-06-28T14:28:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As did you. My argument was that Congress did not have unlimited powers to force you to buy broccoli or healthcare insurance. The USSC did not uphold this law based on the commerce act. Congress can not force you to buy broccoli. The USSC ruled that this is a tax and as a tax, it falls within the powers of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/289 "2012-06-28T14:34:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The insurance companies aren’t losers. The law will push a significant number of people into the market. It will indeed, but not at the full saturation the industry lobbied for at the drafting of the legislation. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/290 "2012-06-28T14:39:15Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Dewey Defeats Mandate! Heh. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/291 "2012-06-28T14:40:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > My argument was that Congress did not have unlimited powers to force you to buy broccoli or healthcare insurance. The USSC did not uphold this law based on the commerce act. Congress can not force you to buy broccoli. > > The USSC ruled that this is a tax and as a tax, it falls within the powers of Congress. You said the law was unconstitutional, and it isn’t. It’s not as though the tax argument cropped up out of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/292 "2012-06-28T14:41:32Z")
From [here:](http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/jun/28/supreme-court-ruling-health-care-live?newsfeed=true) > [@](#): > > There’s a big silver lining here for Obamacare opponents. Here’s the majority opinion on the Medicaid expansion, as written by Roberts: > > _“Nothing in our opinion precludes Congress from offering funds under the ACA to expand the availability of health care, and requiring that states accepting such funds comply with the conditions on their use. What Congress is not free to do is to penalize States that choose not to participate in that new program by taking away their existing Medicaid funding.”_ > > That means that states that refuse to accept the federal government’s expansion of Medicaid can’t be penalised by the government – the status quo remains. > > That’s actually a tricky decision, and it can be read as a defeat for the Obama administration. It puts the ball back in the court of the states that – for whatever reason – want to reject the Medicaid expansion, which is a key part of the reform’s attempt to expand healthcare coverage. This blows a hole inside the Affordable Care Act. Hold off popping those champagne corks. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/293 "2012-06-28T14:51:24Z")
I think that you’ll see something very similar to what happened with things like the stimulus, **Aro**. States will bitch and moan and then take the money and the expansion. Because, in the end, it’s good for the state if poor people have access to health care. Also it’s the mandate that is politically unpopular, not the Medicaid expansion. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/294 "2012-06-28T14:54:01Z")
That’s not quite the issue. Under the bill as passed, Congress didn’t have to actually _give_ the states any additional money. They _would_ have, but it wasn’t guaranteed, which is why lots of governors and attorneys general complained about the unfunded mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/295 "2012-06-28T15:06:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s not quite the issue. Under the bill as passed, Congress didn’t have to actually _give_ the states any additional money. They _would_ have, but it wasn’t guaranteed, which is why lots of governors and attorneys general complained about the unfunded mandate. Oh I see. I thought the complaint was that states would have to pitch in part of the funding like they do for the current program. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/296 "2012-06-28T15:12:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Fox news is saying the mandate has been upheld, not under the commerce act but as a tax. Looks like CNN got it wrong. Not quite. CNN AND Fox (and you) all called it too fast, without reading the whole thing. The humiliation of cable news was worth all the fuss. Who watches that crap? [fun screen capture from Fox](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/cnn-supreme-court-health-care-individual-mandate_n_1633950.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/297 "2012-06-28T15:16:31Z")
My understanding about the Medicare thing was that the Feds could pull ALL Medicare funding if certain conditions weren’t met, per the ACA. It was meant as an incentive to get the states to take the expanded Medicare money. The Supreme Court basically said no to that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/298 "2012-06-28T15:27:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You said the law was unconstitutional, and it isn’t. It’s not as though the tax argument cropped up out of nowhere. Hahahaha. I gave reasons for my opinion. The actual ruling seems to have surprised a lot of people. I’m one of them. Five Justices ruled that this is a tax and Congress does have the power to tax. That is NOT how the Progressive Democrats and Obama sold this bill to the public. Of course, it’s not fraud - it’s politics. I can see where some people will be saying that Obama said he wasn’t raising taxes when he was, in fact, raising taxes. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/299 "2012-06-28T15:32:43Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > Not quite. CNN AND Fox (and you) all called it too fast, without reading the whole thing. The humiliation of cable news was worth all the fuss. Who watches that crap? > [fun screen capture from Fox](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/cnn-supreme-court-health-care-individual-mandate_n_1633950.html) Hahahaha. I was watching CNN when they had their “Dewey wins” moment. I changed channels and saw were Fox reported the exact opposite. It turns out that CNN screwed up. The **Obamacare Tax** will now become a major issue in the upcoming election. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510/300 "2012-06-28T15:36:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The **Obamacare Tax** will now become a major issue in the upcoming election. Well, an issue, I suppose, since that’s about all you have. “Major” will be a matter of perspective, I’m sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-for-supreme-court-decision-on-health-care-law/625510.md?page=16)