# Waiting period waived for HH Pope John Paul II **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 23, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035 "2005-05-23T02:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/1 "2005-05-23T02:39:39Z")
According to [this piece by ZENIT](http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=70889), a Catholic news service, on May 13, the feast of the Virgin of Fatima, the Holy Father, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, waived the waiting period for His Holiness Pope John Paul II, of venerated memory. The last time a part of the waiting period was waived was with the case of Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta. However, as the article points out, His Holiness Pope John Paul II waived only two years of the customary five-year waiting period. In contrast, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI waived all five years so the case of sainthood for His Holiness Pope John Paul II may proceed immediately. WRS - Santo subito! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/2 "2005-05-23T03:28:40Z")
So Benny is Ford to JPII’s Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/3 "2005-05-23T20:52:47Z")
So are they making some sort of case yet? Has anyone speculated on what miracles he’ll be found to have performed? Honestly, what did he do to make him worthy of sainthood? He seems a decent guy, but I don’t quite understand the depth of a lot of Catholics’ love for him. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/4 "2005-05-23T21:07:29Z")
Waiting period for what? Is there a Pope Hall of Fame? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/5 "2005-05-23T21:08:46Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Waiting period for what? Is there a Pope Hall of Fame? Canonization. Or beatification, which is the first step. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/6 "2005-05-23T21:08:50Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Waiting period for what? Is there a Pope Hall of Fame? Waiting period between death and the start of the process to make the person a saint. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/7 "2005-05-23T21:17:53Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So are they making some sort of case yet? Has anyone speculated on what miracles he’ll be found to have performed? Honestly, what did he do to make him worthy of sainthood? He seems a decent guy, but I don’t quite understand the depth of a lot of Catholics’ love for him. You do understand that the miracles in question are not likely to be miracles performed during his lifetime, but posthumous miracles as a result of intercessory prayers - right? ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/8 "2005-05-23T21:47:45Z")
According to [this website](http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/ccsdecre.htm) (italics in original): > [@](#): > > The following decrees were published in the presence of the Holy Father on the occasions noted. A _Servant of God_ is a person whose Cause has officially begun. When the Holy Father agrees that they lived a life of Heroic Virtue they are called _Venerable_. With the acceptance of a miracle, and following the Rite of Beatification, they are called _Blessed_. With a second miracle and the Rite of Canonization they are called _Saint_. [This webpage](http://www.overcomeproblems.com/saints.htm) gives a nice overview of the canonization process, from beginning to end. It is interesting, and Catholics have noticed this, that the Holy Father already speaks as if His Holiness Pope John Paul II is in Heaven. According to Catholic practice and doctrine, one cannot be _sure_ of another’s presence in Heaven until he or she is canonized. (Nevertheless, it is said that more are in Heaven than are canonized. The canonized are those about whom the Church is sure are in Heaven.) The Holy Father already calls him “Servant of God.” WRS - Pray for us, Servant of God Pope John Paul the Great. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/9 "2005-05-23T21:57:36Z")
Sorry for posting again so soon. As far as the Cause for His Holiness John Paul II is concerned, the preliminary parts should go through easily, swiftly, and without any trouble. This is determining whether the candidate lived heroic virtues (as defined by Catholicism). The other qualification is martyrdom: since the candidate in question was not martyred, the Cause will concern itself with his heroic virtues. I do not think there is any doubt whatsoever that the candidate did, indeed, live and personify heroic virtues. From the second website linked above, it is written that the candidate’s bishop would submit the Cause. Since the current candidate was the bishop of Rome, the current bishop of Rome would lead his cause, which makes for an interesting situation. I believe this is resolved by the vicar of the Roman diocese (Camillo Cardinal Ruini), who, if I remember correctly, fills in for the Holy Father as bishop of Rome when he is occupied as Supreme Pontiff. The miracles will take some time, although perhaps not too much time. From the moment he died, Catholics have been praying for the intercession of His Holiness Pope John Paul II. With so much praying, there’s bound to be some miracles happening. Of course, being the Supreme Pontiff, the Pope can at any time dispense with the formalities, as it were, and declare him a saint. It would be within his prerogative and I don’t think he would be opposed. Certain Vatican people might be quite upset: I don’t think the Curia likes for the Pope - whoever he may be - to go around rather than through them. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/10 "2005-05-24T21:21:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You do understand that the miracles in question are not likely to be miracles performed during his lifetime, but posthumous miracles as a result of intercessory prayers - right? Nope, I didn’t. I thought they had to do them while alive. Clearly I’m not all that up on my Catholic law. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/11 "2005-05-24T21:23:25Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > WRS - Pray for us, Servant of God Pope John Paul the Great. “The Great”? Aren’t you jumping the gun a bit? Besides, aren’t you a Mormon-Muslim? What’s with _this_? Are you Catholic too? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/12 "2005-05-24T21:27:24Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > “The Great”? Aren’t you jumping the gun a bit? Besides, aren’t you a Mormon-Muslim? What’s with _this_? Are you Catholic too? There’s been talk about adding the _Magnus_ since right before his death. Even if **WRS** is jumping the gun, he’s just following the trends of Catholic gossipry. As for just what **WRS** is, I seem to remember a mention of Byzantine Rite Catholic (or Greek Orthodox…can’t remember which) way back when he first started posting. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/13 "2005-05-24T21:45:04Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > “The Great”? Aren’t you jumping the gun a bit? Besides, aren’t you a Mormon-Muslim? What’s with _this_? Are you Catholic too? I loathe using titles, but even I would not insist on asking someone else not to use their title of choice in all but the most extreme of circumstances. In another thread you put me down for my refuring to certain beliefs as being negative things, and you claimed that I should not do so. By doing this, aren’t you doing the same thing you aked me not to do only hours ago? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/14 "2005-05-24T21:50:20Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I loathe using titles, but even I would not insist on asking someone else not to use their title of choice in all but the most extreme of circumstances. In another thread you put me down for my refuring to certain beliefs as being negative things, and you claimed that I should not do so. By doing this, aren’t you doing the same thing you aked me not to do only hours ago? I’m not sure what you’re referring to - your description is rather to vague for me to understand at the moment. It’s just a reaction to the current hagiography of Mr. Wojtyla - it seems imprudent to decide upon his greatness so quickly, and a couple days of over-the-top praise when he’d just died aside, “the Great” is generally a title conferred by history after a significantly longer period of time. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/15 "2005-05-24T22:19:42Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > With so much praying, there’s bound to be some miracles happening. Some of might disagree. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/16 "2005-05-24T22:22:59Z")
Friikkin’ typos! –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/17 "2005-05-24T22:26:37Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Friikkin’ typos! > > –Cliffy In…apparently Finnish, no less! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/18 "2005-05-24T23:42:11Z")
Mebbe I didn’t look in the right spot, but I never found a basis in scripture for all of this stuff between Genesis and Revelation. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/19 "2005-05-25T01:13:40Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Mebbe I didn’t look in the right spot, but I never found a basis in scripture for all of this stuff between Genesis and Revelation. 😕 Oy, vey… how many times? It’s the _Catholic Church_. An article of doctrine or faith DOES **NOT** have to come from anywhere in those books. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035/20 "2005-05-25T01:27:12Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Some of might disagree. > > –Cliffy Of course. What I meant is not that miracles will happen but with so many people so actively interested in seeing the candidate canonized, cases will certainly come forth that will be determined to be miracles. The more “miracles” are reported, the higher the chance one will be found a miracle, yes? A matter of statistics, yes? This, of course, is from an academic perspective. From a popular Catholic perspective, this is all formality. He’s already in Heaven, which the Holy Father has basically hinted at. He cannot declare it outright in respect for due process. (Nevertheless, he basically said so when he said that His Holiness Pope John Paul II is looking from the window of the Heavenly palace.) But I doubt any devout Catholic doubts that he is in Heaven. Excalibre - what am I and what am I not? 😉 I do not think I’m jumping the gun: the title of “Great” is not proclaimed by some tribunal - like being declared a saint - but by the voice of the people. The people have begun speaking. 🙂 jayjay - You might be thinking of **yBeayf** , who is Russian Orthodox. WRS [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waiting-period-waived-for-hh-pope-john-paul-ii/305035.md?page=2)