# Waitress sets the bill in front of the man. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850 "2016-12-29T16:17:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/41 "2016-12-30T00:04:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This is one of those areas where feminism doesn’t seem to have made an inroad, as it’s been my observation that women in general want equality when it benefits them, and preferential treatment when that benefits them. 😃 That’s a human-specific trait, not a gender-specific trait. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/42 "2016-12-30T00:18:47Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Is wine service sexist\*? Plate service\*\*? A tradition can have gender specific rules and still be a tradition and not sexist. > > \*Let the one who orders the wine taste it, then go clockwise pouring to the ladies first. > > \*\*Serve the ladies first. (Less common then wine service) > > And is not pulling a mans plate before the lady is done sexist? Yes! All of those things are sexist. Whether or not it’s worth being upset about is another matter entirely. Not pulling a man’s plate before a lady is done is probably not going to have much impact on gender equality one way or another, especially if it’s in a very narrow context like the occasional fancy dinner out. To use a more extreme example, ensuring that women and children should be first off of a sinking ship literally devalues the lives of men, and is a far more problematic, also sexist tradition. > [@MandaJo](#): > > Do you really always let friends and relatives who make more than you pay for you? You never insist on paying even when the other person technically can afford it better than you? I mean, my sister’s household income is probably double mine, but I pay for the Starbucks half the time, and if she insisted on **always** paying, I’d avoid ever being in that situation with her again. And she understands that. She’d never refuse to let me buy her a cup of coffee. I hate to put this in stark economic terms, but I’ve been poor so I remember how much that sucks, and I’m also solidly middle class now, wealthier than most of my peers (through no particular achievement of my own) but significantly less well off than my very rich relatives on **Sr. Weasel** ’s side. I dunno what ‘‘tradition’’ dictates but my tradition is usually some kind of economic analysis that can be overridden by strong value preferences. Gender has 0% to do with this analysis. My FIL has a salary probably ten times my own, and generosity toward his children is a major value of his, so yeah, I let him pay almost every time. He takes me for breakfast every Friday after our weekly stroll through the woods. I get something out of it too (other than a free meal) – it makes me feel like I am his child. I’ve never really been taken care of like that before, in a parental way. My friends, on the other hand… well, if the bulk of their stress over the past month has been their difficulty affording health insurance or Christmas presents for their kids, they deserve a nice meal out without having to worry about the financial impact. Whenever my friends come over to stay, we buy them dinner. But if I have a habit of lunch with someone every week, probably we’re going dutch, because there is an actual limit to how much I can afford. Here’s where the values get factored in: some people take pride in giving, no matter what their income. My husband’s maternal grandmother was not wealthy and every Thanksgiving she gave us some gas money we didn’t really need. We tried turning it down at first, but she would get anxious if we didn’t take it. I realized then that for some people, no matter their wealth, it means something to them to give to their loved ones. So really, the best question to ask in this sort of scenario is: _What is the most important thing for this person?_ In the case of you, **Manda Jo** , I would respect your wishes to go halvsies. I’m not that person who’s going to shout over the other patrons for the bill. If you say you really wanna pay, I’m going to take you at your word and assume it’s more important to you than it is to me. When **Sr. Weasel** and I dine out, he usually gets the check, which amuses me because it’s being drafted from the exact same account either way. [QUOTE=Dale Sams] Oh Gawd, let’s not even get into the power-plays of different people at the table secretly telling the waiter at various times they want to pay…and the waiter has to decide who is getting the check (PSSssssst…its usually the youngest male who asked) [/QUOTE] My utmost to those servers who slap the check down in the middle of the table and say, ‘‘I’m not getting in the middle of this.’’ > [@](#): > > This is one of those areas where feminism doesn’t seem to have made an inroad, as it’s been my observation that women in general want equality when it benefits them, and preferential treatment when that benefits them. Your smiley doesn’t make your statement any less sexist. 🙂 FWIW, I could let a man pay on a first date without feeling the need to burn my bra afterward. I don’t mind a little gender song and dance as long as it stays firmly within this very narrow scope, it’s almost like playing dress-up or make-believe for a while, assuming the guy is getting just as much out of playing his role. I still blush when my husband holds the door open for me, even though he holds the door open for everyone, and so do I. What matters to me are the real-life ramifications of such practices with regard to gender equality, and in a world with rape and domestic violence and restrictions on women’s reproductive rights, I don’t think letting a dude pay on the first date ranks anywhere on my list of Feminist To-Dos. At most, it’s a benign symptom of a much larger problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/43 "2016-12-30T00:47:39Z")
Last summer, my husband and I went out to dinner. He went to wash his hands afterward, and when the server came by, I asked for the check. The server said, “Um, I don’t give the check the the woman. I think it’s rude.” My jaw dropped, but I said nothing. My husband came, paid, and we left. We haven’t been back there since. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/44 "2016-12-30T02:09:14Z")
It used to be I went dutch on dates, or I let my wife pay about half the time. But last year I started paying all the time. And a month ago, I grew a third testicle. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/45 "2016-12-30T02:12:13Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Anecdotally, my experiences match this pretty much 100% Same here as well. Never bothered me any; I just pass it over to the wife since she likes paying more than I do. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/46 "2016-12-30T02:17:38Z")
They have put the bill directly in front of the woman I was with on many occasions when out to eat. Now once or twice I can believe is a coincidence. But after enough times of it happening, I started to think maybe the fact I use a wheelchair was (perhaps unconsciously?) influencing the staff to give the check to the woman. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/47 "2016-12-30T19:05:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s becoming less common to assume the man is paying, but it still happens that the assumption is made. > > Except, of course, those instances where note is made of my significant other’s disability and not only is the bill placed in front of me (the woman), but all the speaking/questioning/other communication is directed at me and he’s ignored. I’m talking about something other than the waitstaff asking who gets the bill or placing it in a neutral position, I’m talking about active discrimination. This is flagrant sexism. I would complain to management. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/48 "2016-12-30T19:14:45Z")
I’ve always been handed the bill when dining with a woman, assuming the server handed to someone. Sometimes they just put the bill on the edge of the table. I was a waiter myself and never assumed. I’d just plop the bill on the table or hand it to the person who is looking at me like they want me to hand it to them. Or something. Part of being a good waiter is reading each table, since each table is different. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/49 "2016-12-30T19:55:23Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > Last summer, my husband and I went out to dinner. He went to wash his hands afterward, and when the server came by, I asked for the check. The server said, “Um, I don’t give the check the the woman. I think it’s rude.” My jaw dropped, but I said nothing. My husband came, paid, and we left. > > We haven’t been back there since. I would have replied with, “Well, I am the one paying, and I am the one filling out the tip line, but you do what you gotta do.” ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/50 "2016-12-30T22:48:11Z")
The last few times my husband and I have gone out to lunch on the weekend, the server always asks if she should split the bill, which is kind of odd to me. One time we were eating with our toddler. My husband joked we should have had her split it three ways. ---
**Author:** ![SantaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SantaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SantaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/51 "2016-12-30T23:08:06Z")
Do waiters do the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/52 "2016-12-31T00:05:05Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > The last few times my husband and I have gone out to lunch on the weekend, the server always asks if she should split the bill, which is kind of odd to me. One time we were eating with our toddler. My husband joked we should have had her split it three ways. He shoulda said “Naah, just give it to the kid; he’ll pay.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/53 "2016-12-31T00:10:37Z")
I eat out with one to four women rather frequently. Sometimes they’re my wife, sometimes her and extended family, sometimes they’re neighbors or co-workers. I seem to be presented the bill every time the group “reads” as family. If it “reads” as co-workers we’ll usually be asked if it’s separate checks at some point in the meal. But if that question isn’t asked it seems the group check ends up sorta in the middle but aimed at me more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/54 "2016-12-31T02:10:18Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > This is flagrant sexism. I would complain to management. No, that’s flagrant _ableism_, and we are not an isolated incidence of it. > [@Ambivalid](#): > > They have put the bill directly in front of the woman I was with on many occasions when out to eat. Now once or twice I can believe is a coincidence. But after enough times of it happening, I started to think maybe the fact I use a wheelchair was (perhaps unconsciously?) influencing the staff to give the check to the woman. Here’s how check presenting goes when there are two people: 1. If two able bodied men are present then the one that appears oldest/in charge/the boss/alpha gets the bill 2. If it is a man and a woman then the man gets the bill 3. If it is an able-bodied adult and a disabled adult the able-bodied person gets the bill regardless of the gender(s) involved. 4. If it is an adult and a child the adult gets the bill. While there are exceptions, the above is the default. A disabled person “ranks” less than an adult female. I hasten to add that none of the above requires actual malice, just deeply entrenched customs and bias. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/55 "2017-01-03T15:56:56Z")
We usually see that the server either puts the bill in front of whichever one of us asked for it, or in the mlddle of us. It’s been years since I’ve seen it automatically handed to The Man. A related tale from 1991, that I’ve told here before. I (female) was travelling with a colleague (male). We were having dinner at a restaurant near our hotel. Since it was being expensed, it didn’t matter who paid, so I said I’d put it on my card. The waiter, when asked for the bill, put it in front of my colleague. When he went away, the colleague and I rolled our eyes a bit but it was no big deal. So, I grabbed it, pulled out my Amex card, put it in the folder, and put the folder on the edge of the table between us. The waiter came back, grabbed the folder, took it off to run it through the machine, returned with the paperwork, and put it in front of my colleague. OK, clearly he didn’t read the name on the card. Then he said… “Here you are, Mr. Zappa!”. Yeah, he read the name on the card… but was so entrenched in the concept that “the man pays” that it did not occur to him that (very female first name) might be the other person at the table. Somehow, my colleague and I managed not to bust out laughing until the waiter was out of earshot. On reading further upthread, I see something similar happened to FairyChatMom though I think my experience tops that, as she doesn’t say the waiter addressed her husband by name :). ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/56 "2017-01-03T19:28:09Z")
I’m told by feminists that any woman I might be eating with makes $0.70 for every dollar I make so it’s only right that I be expected to pay. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/57 "2017-01-03T19:36:05Z")
The solution to that is easy: If it’s lunch for two she pays. If it’s dinner for two he pays. That’s usually about a 70%/100% ratio. Unless your order alcohol at dinner but not at lunch. When my equal-earning wife and I were dating back in the Olden Tymes we had a simple deal. No check splitting; we just take turns paying. Which led to many tongue-in-cheek “competitions” to buy snacks for two while out of an afternoon so as to make it the other person’s turn for the upcoming dinner. “Ohh look, there’s an ice cream stand! Want one? I sure do! It’s even my turn to pay!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/58 "2017-01-03T20:01:31Z")
My wife an I have a shared credit card that she pays the balance on. I guess she’s a little old fashioned but she enjoys being taken care of, or at least the perception of being taken care of, even if it’s with her money. (It’s really our money but we don’t do shared bank accounts and just split up bills equitably) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/59 "2017-01-03T20:40:38Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > The last few times my husband and I have gone out to lunch on the weekend, the server always asks if she should split the bill, which is kind of odd to me. One time we were eating with our toddler. My husband joked we should have had her split it three ways. Why? Doesn’t your deductible toddler have a credit card? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850/60 "2017-01-03T23:27:08Z")
Waiters/resses play the numbers and they skew heavily towards men paying in a couple or parents+kids scenario. Here in Peru, the man is the default, but what I see more and more is that when they ask “cash or credit card” whoever answers gets the bill. Also, whoever ask for the bill is assumed as the payer. I get the (reverse) sexism, though. My wife usually asks for a beer and I for a diet soda and 90% they motion for my wife getting the soda. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waitress-sets-the-bill-in-front-of-the-man/775850.md?page=4)