I just felt it would make her more likely to have a sense of proportion. Shuri had been taken captive. Certainly a bad situation but Ramonda had no evidence that she had been killed. And having survived a situation where her daughter had been dead, I figured she would be able to essentially tell herself, “This is bad but I’ve already been through worse.”
That’s plausible. I could also see the opposite reaction due to “I’ve already been through the worst, and it’s continuing again”. Grief does weird things to people.
Just watched this last night.
I felt it was meh.
I did like how they handled the death of Boseman/T’Challa. I do agree the actors and characters were mourning.
I’m annoyed with movies that have to make it bigger and the threat bigger. As someone else said, it sets up the Worf effect. Further, then we get these weird situations like the final battle between Wakanda and Talocan where the boat was filled with Wakandans and at the end, only the named characters are left. This is a society that seems to revere life and doesn’t blink at how many warriors were lost? Or is it a Norse Valhalla situation? It’s like those weird statements that heroes don’t kill but then you watch these movies and heroes kill all the time.
I am still trying to figure out why it is that a society that has Vibranium is advanced. How does that work? Does it increase intelligence as well? Did early Wakandans all absorb it and become smart? At least Wakanda has tech! How the heck does Talocan work metal underwater?? Why do they not have something more advanced? Why is there only one advanced structure in Talocan? We see no evidence in Talocan of any computers, satellites, or the like, which they at least show for Wakanda, so as someone else asked, how does Talocan know about anything going on outside of their city??
I agree that Shuri being able to fight because she took the herb made no sense to me. I appreciate that she had a close relative of the herb to recreate it but she wouldn’t have been my choice, either, not having her fight at all hand to hand before this. I agree either Akoye, Nakia, M’Baku, or even Aneka as the Black Panther would make more sense.
I also don’t like how much melodrama has crept into the movies. Having had my physical and surgery recently, and asking questions, medical people don’t like blood oxygen less than ninety percent. They had Riri go to zero?? We see Riri making this crude armor by hand, with harsh edges, and then later it’s all smooth? I mean, just the fact that she could do that by hand in less than a day?
I know I should let it go and enjoy a movie but this has been building up. One of the things I loved about Iron Man was how he had to build stuff to put on or take off his armor. I was really annoyed that by the time Dr Strange is introduced, instead of having this really cool contrast between tech and magic, it’s practically the same. This movie introduced too much, didn’t give it good growth, and then just had an ending that didn’t work for me. Again, too many Wakandans died and apparently, Talocans are unkillable and Wakanda is just okay with that? There is just too much ignored or glossed over anymore for me.
Thanks for the conversation!
Yes, the movie felt to rushed for me. I wanted to see more of Shuri’s development. Her story got wedged into T’Challa’s story. Tough situation for the studio. But her story is what makes the movie a good one.
The scientist was basically a human Macguffin. No agency, just a thing. She could’ve been replaced by a laptop computer.
Namor’s lieutenants were fine. They are only there for Namor to talk with (and good guys to fight with). It’s very one-dimensional when a character’s lines are only with their enemies. And boring when all the bad guys are indistinguishable mooks.
I don’t let details get in the way of the story. But I agree that the movie adds extra tension. It’s so obvious and detracts from the movie. It’s like the writers or director had an idea, that might be a good one, but couldn’t develop it organically and so crammed it in. Another casualty of putting too many things into the movie.
Random comment: my son actually knew what “Griot” meant; he learned it in school. Culturally diverse education is important!
I just finished watching it yesterday, and I thought it was fine. Namor was played perfectly. However, I find it hard to believe that a people who had apparently lived unthreatened for 400 years would have such a large, well-trained, well-prepared army. I would imagine that a society like that would remember war as an abstract concept at most.
I did like Shuri’s emotional journey, and I liked that Val Fontaine appeared here. From her prior appearances, I did not realize that she actually had an official (overt) position in the US Government, I assumed she was either an outsider or some deeply secret Black Ops group. (Not that there would not be such groups under the CIA umbrella, but I didn’t think she was a public-facing figure.)
For that matter, how many wars has Wakanda fought?
Aside from the fact that the several Wakandan tribes have occasionally been at war with one another, it’s pretty clear that Wakanda was colonized by Western powers. While they clearly did not unleash their full might in order to not reveal their secrets, I imagine that they a) felt threatened quite closely, and b) put up some token resistance to not seem too out of place compared to neighboring African countries.
Perhaps Talokan has multiple warring tribes as well, but if so, it didn’t come through in the movie. But that brings up another thing that bothered me about the Talokan army - how can they be so good at fighting in air? I would expect that any weapons and fighting styles they have developed and practiced with would be purely for an underwater environment.
It’s pretty clear that neither side thought out how to wage a war - there wasn’t even a railing around the boat!
Wouldn’t a shitload of underwater blowup bubbles be just as much a problem for the undersea life as they would be for the boat - I mean -it’s AIR against STEEL! surprised it didn’t sink right there!
We just saw it - its not a repeat watch - it was not funny, and its surprising as hell that our little hobbit CIA friend didn’t see himself being set up from the get go.
To be fair - I meant against each other - Wakanda did an admirable job against Thanos’ Forces and even in their own internal conflict - but they clearly didn’t quite think out fighting a marine based battle.
Really? I thought they did a pathetic job, those things were glorified dogs. A squad of US marines would have done better than the entire Wakandan force.
Well - they didn’t run away screaming, They formulated a battle plan and basically stuck to it. It didn’t seem any weapon they had (outside of stormbreaker) really slowed them down.
They were dying to regular guns and bombs, otherwise Falcon War Machine and Bucky wouldn’t have had anything to do.
How did Namor know where Ramonda and Shuri were on the beach? And how did he get in?
He clearly got in by swimming underwater all the way up the river. The other question I don’t have an answer for, unless maybe they interrogated a sailor about surface-world Vibranium and was just lucky to find them there rather than have to swim all the way to the capital city.
I felt it created a mixed weird tone of super-serious mourning over Boseman/T’Challa juxtaposed over CGI war with fish folk led by a merman with wings on his feet.
Much worse actually. It’s like a depth charge - not really air against steel. It’s an incompressible shock wave of water against steel (or fish for that matter).
A particular application of the laws of physics that the scientifically advanced Wakandas failed to deploy against the Talokan.
Seriously. I’m sick of these future space armies that are supposed to be light years ahead of Earth tech but fight as hoards of undisciplined mooks with what are essentially medieval hand weapons. Wakandas and Talokans included.
Bucky Barnes was able to cut down dozens of Thanos goon dogs with a standard M-249 SAW to the point where Rocket, a space mercenary and weapons expert was impressed by it.
Skurge, a member of an immortal warrior race, was so impressed by the M16 assault rifle, he collected two of them and used them against Hela’s minions with brutal effectiveness.
These are standard Earth weapons. You mean to tell me that if Thunderbold Ross showed up with a few heavy brigades of Earth tanks and MRLS artillery they couldn’t tear the Wakandan army apart with their Shaka Zulu in Outer Space tactics and rhinoceros cavalry and “pew pew” laser spears (which makes them…what…rifles with shitty ergonomics, no targeting optics, and a slow rate of fire?). And I’m just thinking of actual military. Not a MCU US military that’s been augmented by 80+ years of Stark Industries weapons technology.
I do concede – it turned into a wee bit of too much of “we’re really mourning Chadwick Boseman (and not just because without him this whole property has been badly diminished)”.
Which event in turn affects the introduction of the SubMariner since one imagines the original idea was to put forth Namor as a Worthy Adversary to T’Challa.
Hey, there’s got to be something at which the Wakandans are not a mile ahead of everyone else!
They fought with the army they had. No time for backup. And the US Military wouldn’t have any Stark tech.
The army they had was supposed to be the best in the world!
In MCU canon, Stark Industries has been a military contractor for the United States since at least World War II. Maybe they didn’t supply Iron Man suits, but certainly some form of advanced weaponry and munitions.
The Avengers were operating in violation of the Sokovia Accords. They would not have been able to reliably expect armed help rather than arrest from any government that is signatory to the treaty for help them. I don’t recall for certain if Wakanda signed the Accords, but even if they did, they had no where else to turn for help separating Vision from the mind stone. Fortunately for them, T’Challa was more of a stand-up guy than a head of state (or perhaps Wakanda never did sign them).