# Wal-Mart security measures **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 18, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969 "2006-07-18T03:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/161 "2006-07-21T22:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=DMC] Of course it does. If an RFID system asked me to submit my receipt to a scanner, then proceeded to scan my bag of items, then I might agree that the are performing at least similar tasks. [/QUOTE] D’oh. I was reading the question as asking if RFID performs the same task. Obviously it is different. Thanks **DMC**. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/162 "2006-07-21T23:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] In my hypothetical store where I have deemed them needed, yes they are. My business, my policies. If I am willing to lose you as a customer, it dosen’t matter what you think. If I percieve that my door checkers save me more money than the few customers offended by their presence bring in, sorry you feel that way. [/QUOTE] And how will your perception change when that hypothetical customer whom you’ve offended sues you or seeks prosecution for unlawful detention (or whatever the appropriate charge may be)? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/163 "2006-07-21T23:47:25Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] And how will your perception change when that hypothetical customer whom you’ve offended sues you or seeks prosecution for unlawful detention (or whatever the appropriate charge may be)? [/QUOTE] You don’t get it, **Monty.** [He still owns the stuff!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7603164&postcount=156) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/164 "2006-07-22T00:06:53Z")
I recently stopped in Wal Marts in Bristol, Virginia and Paducah, Kentucky, bought skirts and blouses and stuff, and strolled out neat as you please with nary a care in the world. No exit checkers or any other sort of interference with my retail experience. But the Wal Mart near me in Sterling, Virginia employs them. No explanation why the discrepancy, unless this is perceived as too close to the mean streets of DC urban metropolis crime, and out there in the great American heartland is perceived to be not enough crime to bother with? I have a gripe against the store for the skirt I bought in a remote corner of Virginia which I didn’t try on until I was in Kentucky, but it turned out to have been mislabeled as my size when it was really several sizes too big. I drove that night until I got too tired to continue, which happened to be Paducah, and stayed at the first motel I saw at the highway exit. Next morning a drive of 5 minutes brought a Wal Mart into view, which says a lot about the USA in 2006, drive blindly in the general direction of any random town and you’re sure to find a Wal Mart. They had the identical skirt in really my size this time, and fortunately I’d been looking for a skirt for my friend, and luckily the too-big one was just her size, so it all worked out OK. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/165 "2006-07-22T01:34:54Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Then they need to harass the cashiers, not the customers. [/QUOTE] Only by checking what the customer is carrying out of the store can they be sure that the cashier didn’t ring up the pack of gum and just slip the DVD into the bag. No I am not defending the practice, only explaining it. FWIW I agree with the OP, It is a thinly vieled accustion of shoplifting, and I routinely ignore such requests. If they want want to push the issue, I will walk to the customer service desk, and let them inventory what I have as they issue a refund for every. single. penny. Been there, done that. For what ever reason, they always say “sir, can (rarely “may”) I check your receipt” .To which I say: “No.” “But sir, I have to check your receipt” “Then why did you just offer me a choice?” “But sir, it’s the store’s policy!” “When this store pays me a salary, and puts me on the health plan, I’ll concern myself with what thier stupid assed policys might be.” ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/166 "2006-07-22T01:56:22Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] If my wife and I were leaving a store without buying anything and the guy at the door demanded that he be allowed to look through my wifes purse just to make sure we weren’t stealing anything, would you have any problem with that? [/QUOTE] Not unless I had probable cause ie security witnessing you hiding merchandise in said purse. FTR I stand corrected based on my own research. The receipt check at the door cannot be made mandatory, at least in my jurisdiction. An alarm from the RFID system would permit me to detain you for a reasonable amount of time for further investigation but refusing the door check does not consitute that. However the “Bricker option” would still be available to me, if I see you again in my store after refusing a door check previously I can eject you from the store and refuse any further business from you. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/167 "2006-07-22T01:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] And how will your perception change when that hypothetical customer whom you’ve offended sues you or seeks prosecution for unlawful detention (or whatever the appropriate charge may be)? [/QUOTE] Simply being offended by my policy does not constitute a criminal charge. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/168 "2006-07-22T03:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Not unless I had probable cause ie security witnessing you hiding merchandise in said purse. [/QUOTE] I see little difference between them searching my wife’s purse and demanding to be allowed to check any other bag she may be carrying [QUOTE=drachillix] FTR I stand corrected based on my own research. The receipt check at the door cannot be made mandatory, at least in my jurisdiction. An alarm from the RFID system would permit me to detain you for a reasonable amount of time for further investigation but refusing the door check does not consitute that. However the “Bricker option” would still be available to me, if I see you again in my store after refusing a door check previously I can eject you from the store and refuse any further business from you. [/QUOTE] Yup! You have the “right to refuse service” (unless it’s based on race or something probably), and a good manager would stick up for his/her employees against jerk customers, but too few of them do. More than happy to throw their own people under the bus to placate an unreasonable customer. Of course, I’m not including myself in the “jerk” catagory because _I’m_ different. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/169 "2006-07-22T09:14:27Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Simply being offended by my policy does not constitute a criminal charge. [/QUOTE] I will continue the rest of this conversation with you as though you are capable of understanding logic. Why I am doing that, though, is obviously illogical as you really are demonstrating fairly well that you aren’t. 1. My question to you was: What if your policy is illegal? 2. Your response was: I don’t care and go shop elsewhere and it doesn’t matter that the illegal policy is offensive to the customer. 3. I asked you: What if the customer sues you for the illegal act? 4. You then sputtered. Now, I didn’t put those in quotes because they’re not quotes. They’re a rehash of the “conversation” to this point. Actually, I think you’ve managed to troll in a new manner; however, I’m willing to be corrected on that. Not on the trolling assertion but on whether it’s a new manner. ---
**Author:** ![Dubious\_Weasle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b782af/32.png) [@Dubious\_Weasle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dubious_Weasle)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/170 "2006-07-22T10:44:51Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Since in many areas you have technically not shoplifted until you have exited the premises, it is still part of the stores inventory until it has left the building. Jurisdictions vary. [/QUOTE] Not true. Once you have completed your purchase [handed over the money, accepted the product] the transaction is complete and the property is yours; it is no longer part of the store’s inventory. As far as I’m aware jurisdiction does -not- vary on this. Now, you are correct that in most areas your are not considered to have shoplifted until you have left the store. Where you have erred is the rational behind this guideline. The reason most areas don’t allow for shoplifting charges unless the individual has left the store has nothing to do with the question of “at what point does ownership transfer.” The reason is that until the individual has left the store with the product is that it is almost impossible to prove shoplifting “beyond a reasonable doubt” until the individual has **actually left the store with the merchandise**. Prior to that point it is easy to simply claim that you you were just grabbing something on the other side of the cashier, looking out the window, checking the signs at the front of the store, or heck, simply hadn’t decided whether or not to buy the item. Only once the individual has left the store with the item is there grounds to say.. well that hey left the store with the item; aka shoplifted. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/171 "2006-07-22T12:09:05Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Since in many areas you have technically not shoplifted until you have exited the premises, it is still part of the stores inventory until it has left the building. Jurisdictions vary. [/QUOTE] Still waiting on that cite. Or maybe you could just admit you don’t know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/172 "2006-07-23T02:17:20Z")
I have never experienced any non warehouse club store check inside my bags when I exit the store and I have shopped at Walmart, Target and K-Mart all of the United states. I have had them check my receipt to make sure an unbagged item was rung up. For the matter of warehouse clubs such as Sams or Costco, I believe it is in the agreement you sign to shop there. This is a differnt matter than you are discussing but wanted to clarify what I said in the above paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/173 "2006-07-23T03:14:12Z")
[QUOTE=adhemar] Sams or Costco, I believe it is in the agreement you sign to shop there. [/QUOTE] Whew! Thanks for that information. It’s good that you posted it, because no-one else has made that observation over the past three and a half pages of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/174 "2006-07-23T03:55:22Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] Note what most of the anti-check posters say. They walk past the receipt checkers after giving a bunch of money to the company that has this horrid policy. Interesting, no? God forbid they pay a little bit more, and frequent a store that treats customers with respect. They give their money to the bad company, and complain about their policies. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Oh gee. You caught us. We’re a bunch of hypocrites. Really, I rarely frequent stores that have receipt checkers. Home Depot is the only one, and they only do it occasionally. (I try to minimize my Home Depot purchases, but I do go there with some frequency.) Usually, the stores that use receipt checkers are the same types of places I don’t like to shop anyway. > [@](#): > > If you keep prices down, you practically have to spit on your customers to get them to consider paying more elsewhere. Dirty stores, long lines, surly employees, confusing layouts, and people go back to these stores again and again. Clean "mom and pop"stores with helpful staff close left and right once a megastore with lower prices shows up. Clean mom and pop stores? Treating people with respect? Yeah, sure. There are certainly some good “mom and pop” stores out there, and I spend my money in those good ones that I find. But most of them are and were pretty lousy. To use a hardware example, I needed a toilet lever thingy to fix a toilet at work. I knew what I needed, but I didn’t know exactly what it was called. So I walked into a local hardware store (on Raritan Ave in Highland Park, next to the Dunkin’ Donuts) and found myself faced with 4 or 5 surly guys who seemed to resent the intrusion into their clubhouse. I asked where the plumbing stuff was. They asked me what I needed. I told them “A toilet lever assembly thingie.” They were like “do you mean a left-threaded shuttlecock with a 3/4 valve? A dog-feathered tee connector? A PVC hooker dooker?” I said “I just need to replace the handle and the lever that’s inside the tank with the chain that connects to the rubber flappy thing that keeps the water from falling out of the tank.” They were skeptical that I would be able to do such an advanced plumbing project, especially given that I didn’t even know the correct name of the part or parts that I was looking for and the fact that I have the wrong genitals to be shopping for hardware with. Well, they didn’t actually mention the genitals, but they did say the other part. I would have just walked out, but I really needed to fix that toilet ASAP. So I finally said, “I know what I’m looking for, and I know how to install it, and I know that it costs less than 2 bucks, so would you please just show me where the plumbing parts are?” The guy begrudgingly led me to the aisle, where the part was hanging right there for $1.79. I said, “Look, it’s a toilet lever assembly thingie,” and bought it and left. I didn’t want a conversation. I didn’t want to be condescended to. And I certainly didn’t want to have to reassure some crusty salesman that I was indeed mechanically skillful enough to replace a toilet lever. (A 5 minute job, at most.) So, yeah, I would rather have gotten it at Home Depot, where I could find the plumbing stuff myself, or even if I had to ask someone where it was, they would probably tell me without giving me a hard time about it. And I’ve had similar experiences at lots of mom and pop stores. Some good ones survive, and some good ones were lost, but most of those that “got eaten up by the big box stores” were crap anyway. Well, at least they didn’t try to check your receipt at the door. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/175 "2006-07-23T06:26:25Z")
Is Home Depot one of those member stores? If not, they can keep their noses out of the customer’s bags unless they have valid reason to suspect a particular customer of shoplifting. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969/176 "2006-07-23T15:34:02Z")
There are three different kinds of that lever thingy for your common tank toilet. … none of them work in the one on my apartment. I had to get one and melt it to create an angle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wal-mart-security-measures/364969.md?page=8)