Wal-Mart

The BBQ Pit
61

Dear King Friday:

While I don’t agree we should be sticking our noses in the air because we’re “too good” to shop at Wal*Mart, I’m in a right foul mood over the article I just read in The Washington Post. If you consider yourself an informed consumer, even if you’ve somehow managed to discount everything else you’ve read or heard about this monster, you might just want to have a look for yourself.

I’m not going to lie to you, my family used to shop there. I’m sure you’ve got your reasons. But what the hell can you possibly buy in Wal*Mart that’s simply not available elsewhere?

Really, I suspect it’s not that they’ve somehow managed to build a better mousetrap. It’s that you can reconcile what WalMart is all about, just so that you can save $0.23 on your Arrid XXtra Dry, or buy a pony-keg of dill pickles for four bucks. In my book, saving two simoleans at WalMart on a Family Pak of ass-paper simply ain’t worth what it does to my soul. But that’s just me.
.

If you can live with the crap that makes Wal*Mart such a success, more power to you. You’re just one man. What could you possibly do about the plight of some Chinese people? Besides, from what I’ve read, boycotts are probably not your bag.

Look, I’m an optimist, but I won’t presume to tell you how to spend your money, and since you’ve admitted you dig “the Mart” so much, I’m fairly sure you’re going to keep right on shopping there. May I suggest a more lofty end to all the piles of cash it’s put back in your pocket? Over one month, count up what you’ve saved by shopping at Wal*Mart, and consider what you can buy for yourself. Now think about what that money might mean to a local work-study program.

Granted, a donation to The Learning Annex might make you lose your favorite cashier, but hey, we are talking about thrift. And that’s a pretty small goddamned price to pay.

Yours truly,

B
.

62

To back up what Lynn Bodoni said, there was an article in Mother Jones last March/April that opened my eyes.

Now, even before I read that article, I hated Wal Mart. I’m just a Target kind of girl I guess. But I’d rather spend a couple extra bucks at Target than save those dollars on the backs of the poor people who are forced to work there. In many rural communities, Wal Mart is the only employer. They make employees clock out, then keep working, to avoid paying over time – or even benefits. If employees attempt to form a union, Wal Mart just closes that store, which can have a devastating effect on a rural community.

I’ve also included that link in case you thought any of the other articles linked in this thread are garbage. IMHO: Wal Mart is indicative of one of the things that are truly wrong with this country these days. I shop and dine at mom n pops wherever possible, but sometimes you have no other choices besides a giant conglomerate franchise. Either way, I’d rather gnaw my own foot off than ever step the other one inside a Wal Mart.

And good luck to Jonathan Chance! Way to Fight the Power!

63

Actually, they quit doing that. Now they just have the people punch out after they finish work, then go back into the computer and alter the time records to avoid paying overtime.

I quit my job at Wal-Mart a couple of weeks ago- I have some tax refund money due, and I’m going to live on that until I finish school. Couldn’t take working there anymore. I actually gave them my resignation the day I was due to return from a medical leave of absence. Wal-Mart has a policy of not transferring employees who develop health problems or have been injured unless there is a workman’s comp claim involved. If you hurt yourself playing volleyball on your day off, tough titty. They will not give you light duty until you are able to work at your regular job. You have to take a leave of absence, which, if you work at Wal-Mart, you cannot afford to do. Also, their benefits are a joke. The premiums and deductibles are so high that the majority of employees can’t afford it, and many rely on county social services or Medicaid for their health care. Also, a single mother who works full time at Wal-Mart is making so little, she probably qualifies for food stamps.

Just something to think about when you’re paying those low, low prices at Wal-Mart. Part of the reason they can be profitable while charging so little for the products they sell is because the taxpayers are taking up a lot of the slack when it comes to providing food and health care for Wal-Mart’s low-wage employees.

64

Have you convinced yourself that everything on the shelves at Target are hand made in Lancaster, Pa? What makes you think that the stereos at Target don’t come from the same factories that the dreaded Wal Mart stereos come from? Just because Target charges $5 more makes everything better?

I just don’t understand the point everyone’s trying to make by saying “don’t shop at Wal Mart, their stuff comes from China”. If you’re searching for that perfect, all American retail store, you’d better pack a lunch because it’s going to be a long journey.

65

What King Friday and the other champions of the cheapest, crappiest service around are missing is that winning the free market race isn’t in their (i.e., the consumer’s) best interest. Consumers gain from the race itself, not from someone winning it. The Fast Company article is an alert to that problem: the further ahead Wal-mart gets, the worse it gets for consumers. Lower prices are gained at a net loss in selection and quality, a shrinking industrial base, and an even larger trade deficit.

You know how they say “a rising tide lifts all boats”? Well, imagine what a sinking tide does, and picture yourself in twenty years.

Saying that, if a business can’t survive Wal-mart, they shouldn’t be in business, is like saying that people who die because they can’t survive 120 degree summers shouldn’t be alive. This isn’t about the moral right to compete in the free market, it’s about looking a little further ahead, in your own self-interest, than the dime you’ll save on your next purchase of asswipe.

66

I go to Walmart all the time, and I’ve never noticed a lot of the problems people constantly mention in Walmart threads. The stores I’ve been in have always been at least reasonably clean and well-organized (as much as any staff can keep up with that many shoppers–as anyone who’s ever worked retail will tell you, people are pigs), with appropriately-sized aisles and staff who were willing to help you to the best of their ability. Granted, it can be hard to find a staff member sometimes, and the best of their ability can leave quite a bit to be desired, but if I have a question one person can’t answer, they’ll find someone who can answer it for me. On multiple occasions, I’ve had staffers drop what they were doing and lead me to the product I was trying to find, rather than the “I don’t know, check aisle X” I’ve gotten at other stores.

As for the selection and quality of the products, the bulk of the stuff they carry is the exact same stuff that Target or the local grocery. Except that Target isn’t open at three in the morning, when it’s easiest for me to take care of this sort of thing, and the local 24-hour grocery doesn’t carry garden supplies and needles for my sewing machine. So I have two choices: I can whip into the Walmart that I drive right past on my way home every night, pick up all the stuff I need, chat with the cashier as I whip through check-out, and get a smile and a wave from the greeter as he watches to make sure I get to my car all right; or I can get up a few hours earlier, fight traffic down to Target so I can wedge myself between other shoppers and unhelpful employees to get toiletries and pet food, then fight traffic the other direction to repeat the process at the grocery, then fight traffic home so I can put it all away before I go to work. Then, the next day, I can fight traffic to the sewing shop to pick up any thread or needles I need, as neither Target nor the grocery stores sell such things. I can then make yet another trip to the garden center to pick up some mulch and a couple of new flower pots.

I don’t really so much care about the difference in prices, but I care a whole lot about my time, so the WallyWorld over by the clinic wins hands down about 90% of the time.

67

You know, I’d never go to Wal-Mart again if my local SuperTarget would just stay open past 11pm.

68

I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague, but I go in Sam’s Club quite a bit. So yes, I realize that there is some dissonance in that since they are the same company (like how I won’t buy anything from the Gap unless it’s on my sister’s massive discount but I go in Old Navy a lot), but Sam’s just doesn’t feel as crappy. I guess the lesson to be learned is that Wal-Mart needs a cover charge to keep out the riff raff.

69

What hansen said, King Friday Walton. :wink:

70

23 cents can buy me six meals.

You had better believe that I am going to save 23 cents if Wal-Mart has a better price.

Out where I live, all there is are dollar stores and Food-lion/-land/-devil or whatever.

I did comparison pricing last summer and came to the conclusion that it’s the dollar stores of rural america that are raping the poor people.

I don’t hold much stock in the idea that Wal-mart brings in such significant business that it is going to break the back of the community if they leave.

A retail store? I am not convinced. An factory gets shut down, it breaks the community. Not Wal-Mart.

71

Wow, hope you didn’t stay up too late coming up with that exhilarating post. Pure genius.

72

Too many of the suppliers make things in China. Hey, I like everyday low prices.

73

Well… if they can’t stand 120 degree heat, then they damn well ought not live where it gets that hot, unless they’re dirt-stupid.

The race isn’t won yet- there are plenty of people who opt NOT to go for lowest prices, and go to local retailers, other nationwide retailers, etc… as is abundantly shown in this thread.

Hell, even I only go to Wal-Mart for things that are EXACTLY the same somewhere else, only more expensive. You tell me why I should pay more money for an identical box of Tide Detergent, sack of Gold Medal flour or a quart of Pennzoil motor oil somewhere besides Wal-Mart? These things have NO service or quality differentiation from those at any other store, so I get them where they’re cheapest.

On the other hand, for produce, cheese, meat, etc… I tend to go to HEB Central Market, Whole Foods or even Tom Thumb, because they have much higher quality and variety… and I’m willing to pay a premium for it. And I buy most of my clothes at other stores as well- I’ll be damned if I’ll be seen in Wal-Mart clothing! However, due to my reasoning in the paragraph above, I buy my undershirts at Wal-Mart.

I think what’s going to happen is that Wal-Marts are going to become either like mini-Sam’s Clubs/Costcos, with large sizes, low variety and low per unit prices, or they’re eventually going to get more variety and raise some prices a little.

Also, I agree with ** CrazyCatLady ** - the Wal-Marts by me are always painfully brightly lit and clean. About the only gripe I have is a more or less professional one- their POS systems and software seem to be uniformly bad, unintuitive and different than those operated by all other stores in the US. I can’t understand how a company so big can have such awful POS systems, especially when they have a reputation for being pretty competent in IT.

74

I have changed my opinion of Wal-mart, based on last night.

Last night I went to Wal-mart to buy assorted expensive media equipment, hundreds of dollars, and one piece was even a discounted floor model. I wasn’t thrilled entirely with the plan, but wanted to get it over with. Now, you could tell from what I had what I planned to hook up to what.

They spent 25 minutes getting the parts to the floor model from the back area. And another 10 ringing up my sale. After the 15 minutes of my being in the store to do my deliberations on my own.

When they got to my credit card, it kept saying I needed a PIN. I don’t need a PIN. Turns out that they have programmed their computers not to accept my kind of Mastercard (it’s a credit card that debits from my checking account), because it costs them too much money for the associated fees.

That came from a manager. As I haggled, I said, “you can accept this card, as is, or I walk out of the store and don’t drop this money here”. This is when he explained the bit about “too expensive”. I cut him off and said, “OH! I SEE! THIS IS ONE OF THOSE WAL-MART IS CHEAPENING THE DEAL SO THEY CAN OFFER THAT LOWEST PRICE THINGS” Said it real loud.

Boy did his face flinch. Boy did he know exactly what I was talking about. I didn’t stand around for the response.

Instead I went to Sears. Found out they had some–not all–of same stuff I wanted. Well, different set-up, and even less happy with the end config. But I asked a floor person a couple of the basic questions that I couldn’t ask at Wal-Mart since I had assumed they wouldn’t know. And found out that my cherished plan wasn’t even electronically feasible for reasons I totally don’t understand.

So I re-configured to my back-up idea, and it cost me 1/2 of what I almost spent at Wal-mart for something that wouldn’t have worked anyway.

While chatting with the Sears guy, I realized the clincher.

My bank is USAA. The armed forces bacnk.

Wal-mart won’t honor the military bank. Wal-mart. Every single milterary man woman and child with the same check/master card that I have is going to get denied because Wal-mart thinks it’s fees are too high.

It’s enough to make me want to write a letter to a RL newspaper.

75

Wal-mart has a business model. It makes them money. Sometimes it is to my benefit to shop there, sometimes it isn’t. I make my shopping choices accordingly.

76

That’s funny. I’ve used my Mastercard/Debit card hundreds of times at the local Wal Mart and have yet to type in my PIN.

77

The last time I was in a Walmart [just over a week ago] there was a note on the bottom of my reciept saying that starting on such-and-such a date, if I used my Mastercard Debit card, I was going to need my PIN. However, I’ve got the same card/bank as katerina2, so I don’t know how widespread this is.

I wasn’t overly concerned since my Walmart trips are very infrequent. But it’s certainly going on.

78

Well, as of February 1, 2004, you won’t be able to, according to the official Walmart notice here. All MasterCard signature debit card transactions are affected, not just those of a particular bank.

Personally, I have always been able to find cheaper prices elsewhere, and will not shop there due to their labor practices.

79

I’ve tried to shop at Wal-Mart exactly once in my life; I live in the middle of a major city, so a) the nearest Wal-Mart isn’t close at all, and b) I have a zillion other choices, many of which are almost as cheap or just as cheap, and far superior in quality and variety.

One day a couple of years ago, I happened to be near the semi-local Wal-Mart and had some time on my hands, so I decided to go see what the fuss was about. When I see a new store, I like to scope it out to file away in my mental Rolodex what kind of stuff they have, and at what kind of prices. The place was a complete zoo. I’m not claustrophobic, but I just could not stand being in there at all. The lines stretched through half the store, and the way the place was organized made no sense. Maybe I’d save $0.50, but the extra hour of my time and added stress are by no means worth it. Even if you can ill afford the extra $0.50, make it up by working a bit of overtime, or by making something from scratch instead of eating frozen pizza.

Yes, the prices on certain items were a bit cheaper than what I could get at Target or my local supermarket. But most of what I buy is much more differentiated than what Wal-Mart sells. I spend a lot more money on things like fresh produce than on electronics or even laundry detergent (although I could see that if you frequently bought name-brand disposable items in high quantities, like diapers, you might change your tune). And the little Mexican produce stand 100 feet from my apartment had far better produce available, in greater variety, and much fresher and in generally better shape, for less money. And I barely buy meat at all, particularly not in supermarkets; I find most supermarket meat is disgusting and tough and not terribly fresh.

I practically never buy soda or prepared foods. Most of my cooking is from scratch. So I’d rather spend a few cents more at Trader Joe’s for the “fancier” stuff without aditives or preservatives and patronize my local family-owned produce stand for the rest. And I make a trip to Target maybe once a month to load up on cleaning supplies, cat litter, and that sort of thing. At least the Target is civilized (and it’s much closer to home). All that without discussing Wal-Mart’s labor and other corporate practices, which also make me want to puke.

80

I won’t touch Wal-Mart, not because of their prices or their China labor, which I could care less about, but because of their anti-woman stance. So many reasons to hate! As a woman, that makes me a bit uncomfortable. This habit started when I was in college, where we’d drive further to the Target, because, being mostly gay hippies in our pajamas, WalMart frightened us. And because nothing’s funnier to a drunken college student than “Tarshaaay.” The only thing I’ve purchased at WalMart that I’ll cop to is my fish. The fish I got was absolutely beautiful, lived for three years, no problems, until it froze to death during a power outage.

I personally don’t care if other people shop at Wal-Mart. I’m not campaigning. Instead, I’m using my money to support what I want, which I think has a greater impact in the long run.

I go to a high-end supermarket (Harris Teeter) where I try to buy everything. They’re open 24 hours–They have a wine connoisseur on staff. Stockers will stop whatever they’re doing and answer questions with kindness. I used to work for them, so I know exactly how well they treat their employees (They’re TQM), and their customers. They model themselves after Nordstroms and Tylenol (For produce-related hepititis scares, they throw huge parties and have prizes and balloons for the customers who have to get tested). I know their profit margin is 1-2% at best, so I’m happy to pay a nickel more per item than I might at Target. The money is well-spent, if I calculate the rate per hour, as it is saving me from the numbing and traumatic experience of a discount store.

My discount store story is similiar to katerina2’s. When I moved to DC, I had no furniture, due to being robbed in my previous apartment. I needed a computer desk desparately. It was the first item I bought (I slept on the floor for four months, but I got the desk the first week). I went to Target, and found a desk for $80 that was servicable, but not fabulous. I hung around actively looking for a staff person to help me lift the thing into my cart for 20 minutes, before I got huffy and left. I went to Office Depot (right next to the beloved Teeter), and they had over 20 desks, all different models and styles. Many for, guess what, $80! They had hovering salespeople, offered free delivery and reasonably-rated installation, and a very sweet, burly Latino man taught me how to lower my backseat so he could delicately place the desk into my car.

Now, I go to specialty stores first, and Target as a last resort. I used to go to the nearby Super K-Mart for things like CDs, but it always looked like a tornado had blown through. I will say I just bought a bookccase at Target for $15. Cheap, easy to put together, beautiful, and exactly what I was after.

A slight hijack, Eva, I hate the Trader Joes within walking distance. The one near me has rotten fruit, and rancid fish, and I don’t think I’ve ever walked out of there with anything edible. I’ve only gone twice, both times under protest. And yet they do a huge business, and are the most pretentious store in my town. Sigh. I miss Fresh Market. A bakery to die for.