# Wales & Isle of Man **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402 "2003-11-26T15:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/1 "2003-11-26T15:56:30Z")
Is Wales a separate country from the borders which define England? Maybe the maps I have seen are drawn wrong, but I see no borderline between Wales and the rest of England. So, is it a section of England? Or, a separate country within the UK? Also, where is the Isle of Man located? One of my favorite authors comes from there, and I’ve been curious to find it. Thanks, - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/2 "2003-11-26T16:00:35Z")
It is a separate country from England, but part of the United Kingdom. The Isle of Man is that elongated island near the top of the gap between Mainland UK and Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/3 "2003-11-26T16:00:51Z")
Wales is a separate country from England within the U.K. The Isle of Man is located in the Irish Sea, between Ireland and Britain. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/4 "2003-11-26T16:12:43Z")
OK, first the easier question. The Isle of Man is located in the middle of the Irish Sea almost equidistant between Northern England and Ireland, north of Wales. It is not part of the United Kingdom (as useful term we will define latter) not of the European Union. It has its own Parliament, and has Queen Elizabeth as their Head of State. They also have certain functions run by the UK - like defence and final Court of Appeals I think and probably others. I cannot recall their exact status now, but is something like an Overseas Crown Territory - the difference being rights of residency and rights to UK benefits etc. The history of the Isle is quite interesting - used to be Viking ruled, owned by what is now Denmark or Norway at different times, but taken over by the British at some point. Now most famous for the Isle of Man TT annual motorcycle race, a high speed road race with an alarming death rate amongst the participants! Wales now. Well, a clue is that the full name my home country is “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. The United Kingdom refers to the union of the Scottish and English crowns after the Act of Union back in the early 18th century. So Scotland and England are separate countries who happen to share the same Parliament (although the Scots have a devolved Parliament too now - England only have the main one) and the same Head of State, but have different banknotes, legal and education systems and many other differences. Taxation and now National Heath are also pulling apart since devolution. Wales has none of these things as whilst it is a separate nation, country if you will, it subject to English conquest way before England and Scotland became the United Kingdom. It is a separate country but shares all laws, legal systems, education systems etc with England and to declare independence would take alot of work and definition. Scotland in contrast could seperate much more easily in theory. Wales too now has another devolved administration but with much less power than Scotlands. That said they have always had their own national sports teams for football and rugby (and thus are not World Champions like we are in their national sport!!!) and a strong culture, with their own language etc. It has a border but only an administrative one, the Welsh counties having a similar status to the English ones next door. If you know which counties make up Wales you can trace the border. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/5 "2003-11-26T16:12:47Z")
Wales is most definitely a separate _nation_ within the UK. I believe there’s some controversy over its “country” status vs. its “principality” status, but to all intents and purposes it is a country, with its own Celtic language. It definitely not part of England, and to insist so to a Welshman might get one a thick ear. [Here’s](http://www.sewhgpgc.co.uk/wales.html) a page of info about Wales. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/6 "2003-11-26T16:22:48Z")
Wales is a separate nation from England, but from a legal standpoint it is less separate from England than Scotland is. Wales was conquered and absorbed by England in the 15th century, who then set it up as a nominal “principality.” In jurisdictional terms, Wales is in many respects treated as if it were just a part of England. Unlike Scotland, for example, Wales does not have its own legal system and its own parliament (although there is a local assembly). The legal system encompassing Wales is the court system of “England and Wales.” To a large extent, Welsh culture and society has been absorbed into English culture and society. Although, it is interesting to note that of all the remaining Celtic languages, Welsh is the healthiest in number of native speakers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/7 "2003-11-26T16:28:07Z")
From Wikipedia – > [@](#): > > Wales was considered by the English and later Great Britain and United Kingdom governments to be part of England until 1955, when it proclaimed Cardiff as the capital of Wales. Since then legislation has referred to ‘England and Wales’ where previously only ‘England’ was used. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/8 "2003-11-26T18:53:50Z")
[Isle of Man in international sports](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114664) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/9 "2003-11-26T23:28:09Z")
Something that would be VERY interesting, is if the UK ever join the Euro…(the european single currency for those that don’t know 😛 )…because the Isle of Man would have to choose between being stranded with a currency that would effectively no longer exist, or joining that of an organisation to which they do not belong (the European Union). ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/10 "2003-11-27T00:15:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GorillaMan \* > \*\* the Isle of Man would have to choose between being stranded with a currency that would effectively no longer exist, or joining that of an organisation to which they do not belong (the European Union). \*\* The latter has already happened in Andorra, Vatican City, San Marino, and Kosovo, for starters. But it will be interesting to see if they persist in a parallel Isle of Man currency, simply switching to Euros from Pounds. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/11 "2003-11-27T00:44:44Z")
Good call, I hadn’t thought through my comment properly…but equally good call, it’ll still be interesting 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/12 "2003-11-29T13:41:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by notquitekarpov \* > **The history of the Isle is quite interesting - used to be Viking ruled, owned by what is now Denmark or Norway at different times, but taken over by the British at some point.** My recollection is that it bounced around a bit amongst the Scots after the Scandanavians. It eventually ended up as a private feudal holding of the Earls of Douglas, who transferred it to King Geoge III ~ 1780. Since then it’s been part of the holdings of the Crown, not part of the U.K., as others have noted. It is subject to laws passed by the U.K. Parliament, if Parliament expressly states that a law applies to Man. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wales-isle-of-man/215402/13 "2003-11-29T14:01:00Z")
Extra trivia - Queen Elizabeth holds the title ‘Lord of Man’: [http://www.isle-of-man.com/generalinformation/constitution&legal.shtml](http://www.isle-of-man.com/generalinformation/constitution&legal.shtml)