# Walking out in the UN. How is this viewed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270 "2010-05-04T11:53:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/21 "2010-05-04T14:56:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re not really trying here. “Wipe them off the map” does not mean changing the name of a country. It means wiping out the people who live there. When Israel was created, a lot of Palestinians were driven out and some were killed, which is terrible. (Incidentally this didn’t have anything to do with the U.S.) Doing the same thing to Jews, which is what Ahmadinejad talks about, would not be justified. I think he’s blowing hot air but it’s a terrible thing to say. > You’re wrong, and this is also a hijack that has nothing to do with the remarks he made. It’s also an argument frequently used by bigots, but I guess we’ll let that slide. > It’s a good thing exclamation points are non-lethal. 😉 \*\* It means wiping out the people who live there\*\* is that not what Netnayahu is doing right now? \*\* Incidentally this didn’t have anything to do with the U.S.)\*\* it has everything to do with them now though, New Yorkers all over Tel Aviv, who do you think are buying up all the settlements and paying for them? the dual nationals 😉 \*\* I think he’s blowing hot air but it’s a terrible thing to say.\*\* at least he is all talk, Netanyahu is all action ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/22 "2010-05-04T15:03:03Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > This point is valid only if you see no difference between the U.S. and Iran. A (relatively) free country has a right and an obligation to defend itself by whatever means necessary. A dictatorship has no rights. what in the name of God are you talking about here? a nation is not only it’s government! What rights then do the people have under dictatorships? Dictatorships supported by the Western powers, people like the ordinary Egyptians. Dictatorships like Saudi, good friend of the West. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/23 "2010-05-04T15:22:55Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > All countries DO have a right to whatever weapons they want - it’s called sovereignty. And Iran feels quite rightly threatened now. Imagine how the US would feel if 100,000 Iranian troops were occupying both Canada and Mexico. good point Desert Nomad That’s the problem. The US is buffered by water. The people have no idea what living next to a tinderbox is like. I have another house in Sinai. Have you any idea how it felt to be a mountain range away from the recent bombing in Gaza, 200km away ? How we felt watching TV and seeing the sky over Sinai. To know that a nuclear enemy who has already invaded your land once is just over that mountain range. The worst the US has felt was 9/11. 3000 dead. 3000 innocent souls dead. Because of Israel the US will never be or feel safe or free. Your money should be spent on your people. Not people like Netanyahu who couldn’t give a damn about you except your money. There will always be a threat of terrorism to the USA and it’s allies from ex partners like Al Qaeda. Good God not so long ago your government was actually paying the Taliban!!!😕 It just goes to show the complete lack of understanding of how the ‘war on terror’ can never be won. They have handed it to you on a plate. The solution that is. Al Qaeda etc want the West out of the ME. It’s that simple, but you will carry on fighting wars you will never win and die for the likes of Netanyahu. How many of his Israeli soldiers are fighting right now in Afghanistan and securing Iraq;) How many of his soldiers have died so far? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/24 "2010-05-04T15:33:16Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > What do you mean’ Iran doesn’t’ ? Israel recently said it would bomb Iran and the US said wouldn’t stop it.😕 No, that’s not what happened at all. Please don’t make things up. > [@Desert Nomad](#): > > All countries DO have a right to whatever weapons they want - it’s called sovereignty. Once a country has signed a treaty, it has agreed to share its sovereignty with other members of the treaty in accordance with the obligations of the treaty. Sovereignty is not an excuse for perfidious foreign policies. Iran is a member of the NPT and has the obligation to uphold it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/25 "2010-05-04T15:41:40Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > \*\* It means wiping out the people who live there\*\* > > is that not what Netnayahu is doing right now? > \*\* No. What they’ve been doing with the settlements is bad enough, but it’s not extermination. > [@](#): > > it has everything to do with them now though, New Yorkers all over Tel Aviv, who do you think are buying up all the settlements and paying for them? the dual nationals 😉 I thought you were talking about events surrounding the creation of Israel 60 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/26 "2010-05-04T15:45:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, that’s not what happened at all. Please don’t make things up. > **[Latest news & breaking headlines](https://www.thetimes.com/)** > > The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment. Clinton has stated her commitment to Israel is unshakeable. If Israel attacked Iran and Egypt and Syria joined in (because Iran cannot get land troops there), and by the way that is what will most likely happen if it does strike. Do you really believe that the US will not join in? Although thinking about it you might be right. A few days of Egyptian and Syrian bombing on Israel will be the end of it so no point in USA getting involved is there I suppose. There won’t be anything left to fight for. God help us all:( ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/27 "2010-05-04T15:47:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I thought you were talking about events surrounding the creation of Israel 60 years ago. No the Brits made that huge historical error which we are all still suffering the effects of.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/28 "2010-05-04T15:52:28Z")
I don’t think having nuclear bombs is even a deterent to be honest. A nuclear bomb is no good against Al Qaeda. Israel with it’s 150+ nuclear bombs achieved nothing but international condemnation after their recent war on Gaza. They couldn’t even match Hezbullah who had no tanks or navy or air force, although today is different. Lebanon have them on board. Hezbullah kicked their asses. Israeli’s are cowards. A few dead soldiers and they always retreat thank God. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/29 "2010-05-04T15:58:08Z")
In fact a few weeks of Iran stopping oil shipments in the Strait of Hormuz will put Europe and the US in darkness. There will be no petrol or oil to keep it running. That’s most likely why the Chinese and Russians are smart enough to realise industry will come to a halt for their veto members. Egypt will close the Suez canal. Lucky we have oil and gas here:D ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/30 "2010-05-04T16:01:12Z")
**Marmite Lover** , I’m sorry you felt in fear of your life while bombs were being dropped on aggressors that were 200 miles away, by professionals with careful steps taken to reduce and minimize civilian casualties and damage. Sadly, those that are regularly attacked by randomly fired rockets from Gaza (Isreali’s) have no such steps being taken on their behalf. As for the US not calling out Isreal on their nuclear weapons (they currently don’t HAVE a nuclear weapons prgraom, afaik), the official stand has always been that we don’t KNOW for SURE that the IDF is a nuclear force. It’s all rumor and speculation. And you can’t cite Carter as proof, as he was writing in his capacity as a civilian, and not speaking as a head of state. eta: And of course the IDF wasn’t as effective against the terrorist Hezbollah. They are terrorists, who don’t care if their own people died. Thankfully, as stated, the IDF tried NOT to kill the innocent. Unlike Hezbollah or Hamas, who will kill each other in the off chance they can kill one old Israeli woman drinking tea. She sure was a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/31 "2010-05-04T16:04:50Z")
Also, if Egypt, Syria et al were unable to stop the IDF 30 years ago, what makes you think they’ll do any better NOW? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/32 "2010-05-04T16:10:09Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > In fact a few weeks of Iran stopping oil shipments in the Strait of Hormuz will put Europe and the US in darkness. There will be no petrol or oil to keep it running. I think the U.S. actually gets most of its oil from non-Middle Eastern sources. Certainly if that happened it would drive gas prices way up, but the power wouldn’t go out. > [@](#): > > Lucky we have oil and gas here:D We do, too. It’s coating the Gulf of Mexico as we speak. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/33 "2010-05-04T16:16:27Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > **Marmite Lover** , I’m sorry you felt in fear of your life while bombs were being dropped on aggressors that were 200 miles away, by professionals with careful steps taken to reduce and minimize civilian casualties and damage. > > Sadly, those that are regularly attacked by randomly fired rockets from Gaza (Isreali’s) have no such steps being taken on their behalf. > > As for the US not calling out Isreal on their nuclear weapons (they currently don’t HAVE a nuclear weapons prgraom, afaik), the official stand has always been that we don’t KNOW for SURE that the IDF is a nuclear force. It’s all rumor and speculation. > > And you can’t cite Carter as proof, as he was writing in his capacity as a civilian, and not speaking as a head of state. I’m sorry to tell you but I have to disagree. Being in Egypt the Rafah crossing was opened to allow injured Gazans into Egypt for treatment. I was involved in visiting injured in 2 hospitals here. One in Downtown Cairo and one in Shekh Zayid City. In fact we translated for a Times newspaper journalist when she done her articles from one of the hospitals. I talked first hand to Gazans. Each patient was escorted by one family member. We found that mostly to be uncles. That was because when the house was bombed the rest of the family were either killed or injured so no one to escort them, that is first. The Times reporter contacted me from London because she heard a rumour that white phosphorus was being used. I confirmed the burns looked like she described and she flew out that night. She also was told by an IDF soldier what was being used and interviewed him. We picked her up and went to the hospital. There were around 16 injured of which we spoke to a few but seen all. Most were children. One 10 year old with a bullet in her head. In a coma and paralysed. They left the bullet. One 17 year old whose intestines were blown out of his abdomen and leg shrapnel wounds. A mother of 4 young children shot in the back as she tried to get her children out of the house to safety. Quad paralysed. She did not know 3 of her children were killed. One sister of which one was killed by a bullet outright on the roof of the house as she and her sister cowered terrified behind a water tank, the other shot. I will continue in a minute ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/34 "2010-05-04T16:24:56Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Iran has not invaded another country or waged war with anyone in 300 years. Uhhh, you just listed a country Iran has had a war with two sentences later: > [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > When the US gave Iraq weapons to fight Iran they used biological weapons not only only on their own people but on Iranians!! Iranians used conventional weapons, because even biological weapons is against their beliefs. Even if Iraq attacked first, if Iran retaliated, that’s “waging war” in my book. [QUOTE=Marmite Lover] I’m still waiting to hear what lies he told? [/quote] Welll, there is the “denying the Holocaust” thing, but I don’t think that was mentioned in his UN speech. That’s the main thing that will never get me to trust or like the man no matter what he does. [QUOTE=Marmite Lover] And why does Iran continue to make bloodcurdling threats to wipe Israel from the map?" **like the US and Israel done to the land called Palestine? look back all the old maps. Israel used to be called Palestine. Who wiped them off the map?** [/quote] I am all for people having their own country to call their own, which is why I am in favour of a Palestinian state. But under _no_ circumstances should it be at the expense of another because the Jews deserve their own state every bit as much as the Palestinians do (and frankly both sides are doing all they can to not help their cause in my books). Ahmadinejad seems to think the Palestinian state has more of a right to exist than the Jewish state does. And that’s not what nation building is all about. (The fact they both want the same territory is what makes this situation a little trickier.) ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/35 "2010-05-04T16:30:56Z")
This is a 10 year old, we translated for his uncle. [![](https://tinypic.com/images/goodbye.jpg) ](https://tinypic.com/images/goodbye.jpg) I am posting his picture because his uncle wanted everyone to see what Israeli white phosphorus does to a 10 year old child. It is my picture and I have permission to use it. In the next bed to him was a 17 year old with his two legs blown off. There were various others, but these stuck in my mind. So this was just a tiny sample of what I saw of 'Mark Regev’s ‘surgical bombing and targeting’. I don’t think that what I heard from the relatives I spoke to’s 60 year battle compares at all to a few qassam rockets fired into Ashkelon which usually never hit their target. I do not support Hamas but I do understand them. They are resisting occupation just like the French did. Killing is never okay. Bombing people with phosphorus and sniping at children is just pure evil in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/36 "2010-05-04T16:32:45Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > Uhhh, you just listed a country Iran has had a war with two sentences later: > > Even if Iraq attacked first, if Iran retaliated, that’s “waging war” in my book.) glad I don’t read your books then eh;) ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/37 "2010-05-04T16:36:07Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > Uhhh, you just listed a country Iran has had a war with two sentences later: > > Even if Iraq attacked first, if Iran retaliated, that’s “waging war” in my book. > > Welll, there is the “denying the Holocaust” thing, but I don’t think that was mentioned in his UN speech. That’s the main thing that will never get me to trust or like the man no matter what he does. > > I am all for people having their own country to call their own, which is why I am in favour of a Palestinian state. But under _no_ circumstances should it be at the expense of another because the Jews deserve their own state every bit as much as the Palestinians do (and frankly both sides are doing all they can to not help their cause in my books). Ahmadinejad seems to think the Palestinian state has more of a right to exist than the Jewish state does. And that’s not what nation building is all about. (The fact they both want the same territory is what makes this situation a little trickier.) Hang on! So you’d be in favour then of China moving into Texas and setting up a new country called Xiang Ho? Chuck the Texans out to refugee camps and set up a central communist government. Dear God what goes on in peoples minds:confused: ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/38 "2010-05-04T16:40:54Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Also, if Egypt, Syria et al were unable to stop the IDF 30 years ago, what makes you think they’ll do any better NOW? Seriously. Egypt is ranked 11 in military power. Israel is tiny. It could be finished in a day. Have you been to Sinai? Tanks and military every few miles;) Egyptian troops are also trained like guerillas;) just like Iran. They can survive in the desert and are I would estimate a lot harder than your average American or Israeli. Just ask any Egyptian who done national service. 30 years build up of military paid for by US aid 😉 Bit like the taliban. You can never trust them;) It would be a very different scenario nowadays. Also they had Sadat then!! ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/39 "2010-05-04T16:44:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think the U.S. actually gets most of its oil from non-Middle Eastern sources. Certainly if that happened it would drive gas prices way up, but the power wouldn’t go out. > We do, too. It’s coating the Gulf of Mexico as we speak. :smack: 40% from here;) **We do, too. It’s coating the Gulf of Mexico as we speak** that is just so sad:( ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270/40 "2010-05-04T16:54:40Z")
Someone said earlier that they would never believe a word Ahmedinejad says. The IDF denied using phosphorus;) It was that Times reporter that got it into the media after seeing the 10 year old. Then they had to admit it. Can you believe what the Israeli’s tell you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-out-in-the-un-how-is-this-viewed/538270.md?page=3)