# Walking upright..... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035 "2003-01-01T12:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/21 "2003-01-01T16:57:26Z")
I don’t know if penguins flock. They’re birds, and you can get a couple thousand of them standing together. Ever see the old (based on a true story) Bloom County cartoon? First the jet flies, left to right, over a massive herd of penguins. And slowly, every head turns, left to right, to follow it. And then it comes back. Right to left. And every head turns, right to left, to follow it. And then it returns, flying front to back. And slowly, slowly, but surely, every head tips up, up, up… and softly, a thousand penguins fall on their butts. ---
**Author:** ![lout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@lout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lout)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/22 "2003-01-01T22:03:27Z")
When pre historic man learned to make fires, he also learned to control fires. Once upon a time, he stood up and peed on the fire to put it out. The rest is history. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/23 "2003-01-02T00:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sinful \* > \*\*Does anyone wonder why humans are the only creature whose spines point toward the heavens? > > I’m sure there is something significantly meaningful about that. \*\* [I think you’re on to something there.](http://cyborganic.com/people/feathersite/Poultry/Ducks/Runners/BRKRunners.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/24 "2003-01-02T00:35:55Z")
PS is it possible for something to be _less than_ significantly meaningful? ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/25 "2003-01-02T00:36:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*I don’t know if penguins flock. They’re birds, and you can get a couple thousand of them standing together. Ever see the old (based on a true story) Bloom County cartoon? First the jet flies, left to right, over a massive herd of penguins. And slowly, every head turns, left to right, to follow it. And then it comes back. Right to left. And every head turns, right to left, to follow it. > > And then it returns, flying front to back. And slowly, slowly, but surely, every head tips up, up, up… and softly, a thousand penguins fall on their butts. \*\* [Nope](http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/penguin.htm) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/26 "2003-01-02T00:48:49Z")
I first saw it in a Air Force Magazine, circa 198X (Where X is 6-8), in Bob Stevens’ There I Was end of magazine cartoon. I figured the Bloom County came from that. May be a bull story, but I do not think that the evidence Snopes has is enough to debunk it… I’d have preferred finding one of the pilots stationed there and asking him. Still. Penguins, upright, there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/27 "2003-01-02T01:20:28Z")
I was under the impression that the point behind upright posture was the freeing of the forelimbs from locomotion, enabling them to be used for grasping and shaping purposes. (Note that a wide variety of other creatures evolved this skill.) Regarding “pointing toward the heavens,” I offer [http://www.sculpturecenter.org/oosi/sculpture.asp?SID=923](http://www.sculpturecenter.org/oosi/sculpture.asp?SID=923) this statue, which on this Jan. 1 as a Raleigh-area resident I would have to point out as acknowledgement by the Great Lawgiver that the Wolfpack is really No. 1!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/28 "2003-01-02T02:24:48Z")
So we have thousands of species of bird, hundreds of species of dinosaur, forty odd species of kangaroo, a few species of lemur and four species of apes (orangs and gibbons also walk upright when they have to walk at all) whose spines point towards heaven. Seems like humans are about as special as mud. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Cadet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Space\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/29 "2003-01-02T04:13:10Z")
I’m special because my mommy says I’m special. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/30 "2003-01-02T04:18:50Z")
As someone who’s never been able to walk without assistance (and barely, at that), I find bipedalism to be amazing. What I mean is, I can’t figure out how it generally works so well, especially in humans - is it the butt that keeps everything in order (balanced, I guess)? Or the hips? Or am I woefully oversimplifying? I s\*\*t you not, I’m really curious. ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/31 "2003-01-02T04:20:57Z")
I don’t mean to imply that there’s something inherently significant about bipedalism - I just can’t totally wrap my brain around how people don’t fall on their butts on a constant basis. Sounds kinda stupid, I know, but 'tis true. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/32 "2003-01-02T05:08:17Z")
Cosmopolitan, you should look at the research being done in creating an artificial auto-balancing leg using computer-controlled motors responding to adjustments in balance. [http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/leglab/background/links.html](http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/leglab/background/links.html) ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/33 "2003-01-02T05:10:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > **So we have…hundreds of species of dinosaur…whose spines point towards heaven.** Dinosaurs’ spines did not “point towards heaven”. Bipedality does not require a vertical spine; in the case of dinosaurs, the spine was more or less horizontal when walking. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/34 "2003-01-02T05:12:36Z")
The reason our ancesters started walking upright is simple. It’s easier than walking on all fours. Try it sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/35 "2003-01-02T06:04:59Z")
Poly: I find it disturbing that the installation date on that statue is “unknown”. What, people just woke up one morning and it was there? \<\< twilight zone music \>\> ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/36 "2003-01-02T06:10:15Z")
::: snork ::: 😃 "He thought he was going to Notre Dame. Little did he realize he was about to enter… …the Twilight Zone!" 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/37 "2003-01-02T06:12:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sinful \* > \*\*You knuckledraggers stay out of this, please. > > Does anyone wonder why humans are the only creature whose spines point toward the heavens? > > I’m sure there is something significantly meaningful about that. \*\* Do tell what you mean by knuckledraggers. That is if you actually deign to respond. You seem to start threads and not following up in them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/38 "2003-01-02T06:21:41Z")
Does **Sinful** ever respond to any of his own threads? If he’s looking for a factual answer to this, it should be in GQ shouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/39 "2003-01-02T06:24:56Z")
[nitpick] I was under the impression that evolutionary adaptations don’t have a “why”, that is. they don’t happen in response to a “need”. I was under the impression that random genetic mutations are constantly taking place. Most of them are too minor to be noticed or have any effect on the overall population of a species. Most of the major random genetic mutations that do take place are not advantageous to the individual and usually cause the individual to die before passing them on. Very rarely a mutation will take place that is advantageous to the survival of an individual (trait X). The individual with that random genetic mutation will pass it on to its offspring. If there is environmental pressure that will put more stress on the individual members of a species who lack trait X, a larger percentage of them of them will die before reaching sexual maturity than members of the species who posess trait X. That is my understanding of how evolution works. It may seem like a minor point, but to begin with the assumption that adaptations happen for a reason is to begin the debate by giving it half way to the creationist/intelligent design camp. [/nitpick] So, a better way of phrasing the question would be “ **What are the survival benefits of upright posture** ”. And the first that springs to mind would be “It leaves the hands available to manipulate the environment; e.g. tool use becomes easier”. Further down the list would be fire urination, peanut butter sandwich-making, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035/40 "2003-01-02T06:39:56Z")
Oh, Jack@ss, you are SUCH a silly person. Of course there’s a “reason” why we are the way we are–that’s the way the aliens _designed_ us. \<\< channeling Angelica \>\> Do I have to explain _everything_ to you _babies_? 😃 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Does Sinful ever respond to any of his own threads?** Yes. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2791613#post2791613](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2791613#post2791613) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2791610#post2791610](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2791610#post2791610) FWIW. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walking-upright/146035.md?page=3)