# Wall Street Firms Funnel Millions to Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2004, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965 "2004-05-25T10:19:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/1 "2004-05-25T10:19:24Z")
So imagine you worked for Merrill Lynch like in the story below, and received a letter “suggesting” you contribute to President’s Bush reelection campaign. Given that donors can be identified via [FundRace](http://www.fundrace.org/) and other sites, it would seem to be prudent to ante up and follow the bosses wishes or at least don’t contribute to the other side. Seems to me that letters like this from higher-ups should be illegal, since as an employee, it puts you between the proverbial “a rock and a hard place”. There doesn’t seem to be any easy way to stop this sort of pressure outside of making the action illegal. Any thoughts or ideas? And as an aside, it seems to me that if the fat cats on Wall Street are heavily for Bush, then that’s more than enough reason to vote the other way since I’ve never been in synch with their interests. > [@](#): > > \*\*Wall Street Firms Funnel Millions to Bush \*\* > Finance Sector Produces Surge of Cash to President Who Cut Taxes on Dividends, Gains > > By Thomas B. Edsall and Jonathan Weisman > Washington Post Staff Writers > Monday, May 24, 2004; Page A04 > At Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc., a suggestion from chief executive E. Stanley O’Neal is not to be taken lightly. > > O’Neal eliminated 24,000 jobs, froze pay and steadily pushed out competitors for executive power, including colleagues who had championed his rise up the corporate ladder. “Ruthless,” O’Neal has reportedly told colleagues, “isn’t always bad.” > > So it came as no surprise that when O’Neal sent letters to senior executives at Merrill Lynch in early June asking them to contribute to President Bush’s reelection campaign, the response was prompt and generous. > > Between June 12 and June 30 of last year, the Bush-Cheney campaign was inundated with 157 checks from Merrill Lynch executives and at least 20 from their spouses; 140 checks were for the maximum allowed by law: $2,000. > > Total take generated by the O’Neal letter: $279,750 in less than three weeks. When that total is combined with the rest of the money contributed to Bush by employees during the current election cycle, Merrill Lynch personnel have given $459,050, according to Dwight Morris & Associates, which studies political money. > > The money flowing from Merrill Lynch employees is part of a $12.14 million tidal wave of cash to the Bush campaign from the finance and insurance sectors. > > Wall Street has stepped up to the plate in support of Bush, and Bush has sponsored legislation producing billions of dollars in revenue on Wall Street. > > Capital gains and dividend tax cuts have encouraged substantial asset shifting by investors – transactions producing commissions for securities firms. In addition, in 2001, Bush secured a gradual repeal of the estate tax, allowing the accumulation of investment wealth without fear of large tax liability for heirs. > > The 10-year revenue loss from the elimination of the estate tax will be $133.2 billion, according to Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation. The revenue losses from the dividend and capital gains cuts will be $125.3 billion through 2010, according to the committee. > > [Full article (registration required)](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50364-2004May23.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/2 "2004-05-25T10:22:06Z")
How do you feel about union contributions to the Democrats and Democrat-friendly PACs? This practice has an even more coercive aspect – the unions donate money directly, rather then merely “suggesting” union members contribute. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/3 "2004-05-25T10:33:31Z")
Its become a dirty game has electioneering. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/4 "2004-05-25T12:34:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How do you feel about union contributions to the Democrats and Democrat-friendly PACs? This practice has an even more coercive aspect – the unions donate money directly, rather then merely “suggesting” union members contribute. > > - Rick What is scarier though to you ? Unions giving money or fat Wall Street cats ? (though giving Union money seems wrong of course…) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/5 "2004-05-25T13:21:17Z")
You know, theoretically, union members can request that their dues be used for collective bargaining only, and not political activity. I say theoretically, since the request is seldom made. Unions don’t, as a rule, let their members know they can do this, even though they’re required by law to do so. Requests by union members that their dues be so restricted are sometimes completely ignored. There have even been cases of coercion and violence against members making such requests. Thats a hell of a lot worse than what O’Neal did. Especially since there isn’t any suggestion of a quid pro quo jobs for political donations ploy. He could just have been doing some particularly aggressive politicking - inappropriate, maybe, but not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/6 "2004-05-25T13:40:21Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > …There have even been cases of coercion and violence against members making such requests… You can, of course, prove this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/7 "2004-05-25T14:18:24Z")
Note that the article says letters went to “senior executives” at Merrill. I doubt those guys are too worried about being fired for not contributing to a campaign fund. I would think there would be ethical (and possibly legal) problems if this were to trickle down the ranks. From what the facts seem to be, though, this is a non-story. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/8 "2004-05-25T14:35:44Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > What is scarier though to you ? Unions giving money or fat Wall Street cats ? (though giving Union money seems wrong of course…) Unions giving money seems scarier to me. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/9 "2004-05-25T14:40:35Z")
Yes, but… Unions are made up of little guys. Everyone knows that little guys are good. Wall street folks are big guys, and everyone knows they’re evil. Yep, yep. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/10 "2004-05-25T16:31:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You can, of course, prove this. There are many cases. [One belongs to George Gally.](http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb/shared_files/decisions/ALJ/JD(NY)-59-03.htm) He was never informed of his _Beck_ rights, guaranteeing him collective bargaining even if he withdrew, by his union. Consequently, they held up thousands of dollars of back pay due him, saying, falsely, that he owed them dues. George won his case with the NLRB. I can easily find more, but do you really want me to? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/11 "2004-05-25T17:51:52Z")
No, not really. No need. One must certainly concede that Wall Street investment firms committment to egalitarianism and “fair play”, thier fretful obsession with the concerns of the small investor, the widowsandorphans, is the stuff of legend. As well, one must wonder why we even have labor unions, given corporate America’s passionate committment to the well-being of the laboring classes. Given such shining examples of humanitarian capitalism as Tyson Foods, Enron, and other paragons of virture, one must wonder why cigar-chomping labor bosses are tolerated in our enlightened age! Given the everyday munificence of white Christians in suits, how can one doubt that a loving and just Providence has placed money and power in the hands of the wise and the just? Is not our history replete with examples of corporate executives offering up enormous self-sacrifice in order to ensure the well-being of the lesser ilk, we, who are well-advised to tug our forelock in grateful obeisance, secure in the knowledge that the meek shall surely inherit thier plot of earth in due time, as Mammon wills. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/12 "2004-05-25T18:27:06Z")
So corporations are always evil, and labor unions are always paragons of virtue, **elucidator**? You and I both know the world is far more complex than that. Great and good things are possible from the corporate world, as well as bad. And I’m pretty clearheaded about labor unions, coming from a steelworking family. If the union leadership needs to screw over some small fry to get their way, they’ll sometimes do so, without regret. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/13 "2004-05-25T18:30:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, not really. No need. > > One must certainly concede that Wall Street investment firms committment to egalitarianism and “fair play”, thier fretful obsession with the concerns of the small investor, the widowsandorphans, is the stuff of legend. As well, one must wonder why we even have labor unions, given corporate America’s passionate committment to the well-being of the laboring classes. Given such shining examples of humanitarian capitalism as Tyson Foods, Enron, and other paragons of virture, one must wonder why cigar-chomping labor bosses are tolerated in our enlightened age! > > Given the everyday munificence of white Christians in suits, how can one doubt that a loving and just Providence has placed money and power in the hands of the wise and the just? Is not our history replete with examples of corporate executives offering up enormous self-sacrifice in order to ensure the well-being of the lesser ilk, we, who are well-advised to tug our forelock in grateful obeisance, secure in the knowledge that the meek shall surely inherit thier plot of earth in due time, as Mammon wills. Translation: I asked for a cite proving your point. You gave it to me. Being thus disarmed, but congenitally unable to concede error, I have tossed some sarcasm and some flowery language back. I know the SDMB readership will not be fooled, but I’ve got no other arrows in the quiver. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/14 "2004-05-25T18:32:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Translation: I asked for a cite proving your point. You gave it to me. Being thus disarmed, but congenitally unable to concede error, I have tossed some sarcasm and some flowery language back. I know the SDMB readership will not be fooled, but I’ve got no other arrows in the quiver. lol, I was pretty much thinking the same thing. But I do so love when 'luci waxes eloquent. If you can’t dazzle em with brilliance, baffle em with bullshit. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/15 "2004-05-25T19:21:29Z")
Very good **Bricker** , you provided a cite for your _tu quoque_ fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Illinois\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Illinois\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illinois_Boy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/16 "2004-05-25T19:34:19Z")
I see, because unions sometimes do bad stuff, we can in no way make a judgement about whether the head of a Wall Street firm is acting inappropriately? Thanks for clearing that up. Having said that, I also don’t think this is much of a story. Is O’Neal coercing other executives at Merrill Lynch? Probably. Should they have the cajones to not be coerced? Probably. Can they clear their conscience by writing another check for Kerry in the same amount? Probably. Should they conspire to screw O’Neal the first chance they get? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/17 "2004-05-25T19:44:16Z")
Why should it be illegal for a company to fund-raise amongst its employees? After all, company fund-drives for 501©(3)s or fundraising consortia such as United Way occur all the time. I dislike UW intensely (for reasons I won’t get into here, it’s not relevant), as much as others might dislike a political party, so…I just don’t give to UW. Employees can accept or reject at their leisure. Now, the tricky area is if someone’s job is at stake if they don’t give to their employer’s preferred cause. Should be illegal, though especially in “at-will” states damn hard to prove. But that doesn’t seem to be the debate here. (Though, given Mr. O’Neal’s admitted ruthlessness, it could well be.) Of course, with or without Merrill’s employees, the GOP will do well from its industry. Individuals employed by the securities and investment sector have donated $9,027,033 to the R’s this cycle as opposed to $5,873,017 for the D’s (source: [Opensecrets](http://www.opensecrets.org)) Biggest donors by sector to Republicans: retirees at $18,251,965, against a little over $6 million by retirees to the Dems. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/18 "2004-05-25T20:24:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Translation: I asked for a cite proving your point. You gave it to me. Being thus disarmed, but congenitally unable to concede error, I have tossed some sarcasm and some flowery language back. I know the SDMB readership will not be fooled, but I’ve got no other arrows in the quiver. I’m sure such Dopers as find my vocabulary daunting would be grateful for your kindly assistance in translation. No doubt, they are both gratified by your concern. Regretably, your skills in translation are not on a par with the generosity of your intentions. Perhaps next time, if you find my meaing obtuse, you will simply advise. I am only too happy to rephrase for the benefit of clarity. (And are you quite sure “congenitally” is the word you wanted?) Upon reflection, the “cite call” was ill-advised (I have ill advisers.) It would be silly to base any argument in favor of labor unions on the premise that all such are paragons of civic virtue. The Teamsters broke my grandfather’s heart, and I put on my grave-dancing shoes when the thugs snuffed Jimmy Hoffa. But they weren’t really the subject at hand, were they? Usually, Republican apologists are less than candid when it comes to thier craven devotion to the rich. At least **Mr. Moto** was honest enough to try to change the subject, rather than debate the point. So I can cheerfully concede the point, seeing as it is irrelevant. It is not unheard of for labor unions to employ the same brutal methods as thier enemies. However common this is, it is still regretable. As well, in a democracy, there is no good reason why the rich and powerful cannot have thier own political party to cater to thier needs. They have all the rights the rest of us have, and a few perks as well. It doesn’t really bother me that “money talks”. It bothers me that it votes. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/19 "2004-05-25T20:27:53Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Why should it be illegal for a company to fund-raise amongst its employees? After all, company fund-drives for 501(c)(3)s or fundraising consortia such as United Way occur all the time. I dislike UW intensely (for reasons I won’t get into here, it’s not relevant), as much as others might dislike a political party, so…I just don’t give to UW. Employees can accept or reject at their leisure. A 501(c) organization is a very different beast from a political campaign…which is why contributions to political campaigns are not tax deductible. Besides which, even amongst 501(c) organizations, the United Way tends to stick with the most apolitical one. I.e., you can’t contribute to Amnesty International, Union of Concerned Scientists, or even a local 501(c) organization like Metro Justice through the United Way here in Rochester. (You can contribute to the local chapter of Planned Parenthood but only be specifically requesting your money go to them … The United Way doesn’t give them any money to them out of its general funds.) So, encouraging people to give to the United Way is very different than encouraging them to give to a specific candidate or political party. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965/20 "2004-05-25T20:41:24Z")
**jshore** : Very true–but, the principle is the same. If the employee is free to give or not give, it’s not illegal, and shouldn’t be. The problems arise when employers are coercive, or make giving to an organization or cause a requirement of employment. That didn’t seem to be the explicit case here, though it could have been implicit. Also, though the organizations that United Way funds are, as you say, less political, they’re not completely apolitical. Though, again, that’s for another thread. As a someone who works in fundraising myself, I would prefer that employers didn’t solicit “official” donations from their employees, whether for political parties, for fundraising consortia, or for charities. But that’s my opinion only–I wouldn’t want it to be illegal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wall-street-firms-funnel-millions-to-bush/246965.md?page=2)