# Walloon, you pompous-assed prescriptivist grammar Nazi **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135 "2003-04-25T15:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/61 "2003-04-26T15:00:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SkipMagic \* > \*\*2.) At this point in time, the acceptance of “media” as a collective noun isn’t quite there yet (at least by the majority of those who write the books to which we refer when we have questions like these; and it’s these experts to whom _I_ normally defer), so his correction was, technically, correct. > \*\* I’m still not getting it. What criteria do you use to determine whether a usage in English is “technically correct”? Is the same fellow who railed against “appeals to the masses” suggesting that a majority of grammar elites are the arbiters of correctness? If so, do we need a supermajority or a simple majority in order to determine whether something is “technically correct”? Who counts as an arbiter of correctness? Are certain usages “technically correct” in some regions but technically incorrect in others? What are the acceptable regional divisions? Must the grammar elites who determined correctness within a region hail from that region? The whole concept of “technically correct” English is absurd. If you’d argue otherwise, I ask you to start by defining the concept, with clear criteria. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/62 "2003-04-26T15:12:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*LMAO > > Let’s see if third time is lucky: _singular_. \*\* Actually, it’s Cingular. No, wait, that’s a phone company. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/63 "2003-04-26T15:45:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by birdgirl \* > \*\*HEY WALLOON, > > Look at your posts. . . A salutation should be set off with a comma in informal correspondence or with a colon for business letters. The typeface in the first sentence is lower-case, but the rest of the letter is in all caps; which is preferred? Only three periods separated by thin spaces are allowed in an ellipsis. > > YOU CAN"T SPELL WORTH SHIT, ASSHOLE! “Asshole” should be closed up and set off with a comma. > > YOU WANNA GO HEAD TO HEAD WITH A REAL LIVE COPY EDITOR? I’d query the usage here. “Wanna” is not standard English. I also deleted the superfluous punctuation marks. > > BRING IT ON! I inserted a line space here to maintain format consistency. > > YOU SUCK DICK! > > SINCERELY, > A closing should be set off with a comma. > > your momma Shouldn’t “your momma” be in all caps to maintain consistency? \*\* Signed, A real copy editor ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/64 "2003-04-26T15:49:19Z")
And on a second pass, I’d insert a comma between “real” and “live” in the third sentence, "YOU WANNA GO HEAD TO HEAD WITH A REAL, LIVE COPY EDITOR? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/65 "2003-04-26T15:51:27Z")
And on a second pass, I’d insert a comma between “real” and “live” in the third sentence, “YOU WANNA GO HEAD TO HEAD WITH A REAL, LIVE COPY EDITOR?” ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/66 "2003-04-26T15:52:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BayleDomon \* > \*\*Er, that’s ‘chock’… > > 😃 \*\* :smack: Die! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/67 "2003-04-26T18:03:06Z")
**gobear** - You missed the quotation marks in _can"t_. It ought to have been _can’t_. I’m sorry. I’ll stop. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/68 "2003-04-26T18:10:55Z")
Ack! You’re right. Damn! ---
**Author:** ![futureman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3da27b/32.png) [@futureman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/futureman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/69 "2003-04-26T19:00:53Z")
Really, why the hell do we need to have people running around correcting our grammtical nuances? If the meaning isn’t clear, then I understand, but if it is, then I say leave it alone. I am here to discuss stuff without having to proof-read every single damn post so some self-serving prescriptive grammarian can come in and say "oooo, that should be “are!” _giggle_ I should point that out to discredit him. Who the fuck really cares. Not only is english an evolving language, it is evolving seperately in all of the places that speak it. Which is it? the government are? or is?. Just say what feels natural and as long as everyone understands what you mean, then its all good. OTOH, when I see the They’re their there confusion, it does make me consider the source. But I don’t need some jackass to come in and say “HEY EVERYBODY LOOK! THIS GUY DOESN’T KNOW HOW TO SPELL! HAHAHAHAHAHAH, I’M SOO COOL.!” ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/70 "2003-04-26T19:40:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **"Asshole" should be closed up and set off with a comma.** I think I read the same thing in chapter 3 of “Getting Medieval For Dummies.” ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/71 "2003-04-27T09:30:27Z")
Four out of five medieval torturers choose StickyCheeks brand glue for closing up assholes. Also works great on mouths. That’s why they call it StickyCheeks. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/72 "2003-04-27T11:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by psychonaut \* > \*\*Just found a thread on [a hunt for a hit-and-run spelling corrector](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143384). Makes you wonder what motivated our good friend **Walloon** to join in. Returning to the scene of the crime, perhaps? \*\* The title of this thread immediately reminded me of that earlier thread. The identity of the mystery spelling corrector is pretty clear in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![ageless6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@ageless6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ageless6)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/73 "2003-04-27T12:01:28Z")
psychonaut: Apparently everyone but me knows the definition of prescriptivist, but it isn’t in my on-line dictionary. I don’t mind looking up words, but when there’s nothing close in the alternate section, it tends to drive me BONKERS! Give freely and pityingly to the definitionally challenged.(Definitionalistically)? ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/74 "2003-04-27T12:17:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ageless6 \* > \*\*Apparently everyone but me knows the definition of prescriptivist, but it isn’t in my on-line dictionary. > I don’t mind looking up words, but when there’s nothing close in the alternate section, it tends to drive me BONKERS! > Give freely and pityingly to the definitionally challenged.(Definitionalistically)? \*\* Prescriptivism is one end of a long-running (perhaps eternal) linguistic debate, on whose other side is descriptivism. Most grammarians are neither strictly prescriptivist nor strictly descriptivist, but fall somewhere along a spectrum between the two extremes: > [@](#): > > [**What is the difference between “prescriptivist” and "descriptivist"**](http://www.yaelf.com/swot.shtml) > > Linguists can generally be divided into two groups: prescriptivists, or those who hold that language is governed by fixed rules of grammar, and descriptivists, or those who believe that patterns of actual usage reflect the way the language is used. In extremely broad strokes, if prescriptivists are anal retentive, then descriptivists are free-to-be-you-and-me. > > Descriptivists often accuse prescriptivists of being overly wedded to arcane rules of grammar, continuing to insist on tortured parsings like ‘‘It is I’’ or ‘‘Whom shall I say is calling?’’ Prescriptivists are loath ever to split infinitives (Captain Kirk be damned). And a sentence ending in a preposition is a grammatical transgression up with which they will not put. The usual author of this column is often accused of being a prescriptivist. > > Prescriptivists, on the other hand, believe that descriptivists are paving the way to a linguistic hell, one in which English teachers will have no more say over correct usage than surfer dudes. The prescriptivists worry that giving up on ‘‘whom’’ is a step down a slippery slope that will ultimately have us all speaking ebonics, and they won’t stand for it. > > For years, when it came to settling language disputes, the prescriptivists have held the upper hand. Their thick volumes contained unequivocal rules of grammar, which they could look up at any time. Descriptivists, meanwhile, typically have had to rely on what ‘‘sounds’’ more natural. They have used ‘‘the English you hear on the nightly network news’’ as their polestar. > > But with the advent of the computer, the balance of power is shifting. That’s because the computer now makes it infinitely easier to track patterns of English usage and catalog them for use as reference material. Finally, the descriptivists have an empirical source of verbal ammunition: concrete examples of how the language is actually used. > > The collection and study of millions of such examples of actual usage is known as corpus linguistics, a body of language. The idea of a corpus is nothing new. Samuel Johnson used a corpus of English texts in the 18th century to compile his dictionary, and linguists around the world have relied on corpora since the 1960’s in their efforts to document hundreds of languages. ---
**Author:** ![ageless6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@ageless6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ageless6)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/75 "2003-04-27T18:25:16Z")
brianmelendez: Woof, you give great answer! Smooth in and out details. Complete attention to engorged curiousity. Seriously, Brian,I’m not going to soon forget the difference between prescriptive and descriptive. Thanks. Rick ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/76 "2003-04-27T19:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ageless6 \* > \*\*brianmelendez: > > Woof, you give great answer! Smooth in and out details. Complete attention to engorged curiousity. > > Seriously, Brian,I’m not going to soon forget the difference between prescriptive and descriptive. Thanks.\*\* I’d love to take credit for that answer, but I should mention that it was written last year by John Rosenthal, who was filling in for William Safire writing the “On Language” column in _The New York Times Magazine_ (hence the reference to “the usual author of this column”). ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/77 "2003-04-27T20:06:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ageless6 \* > \*\*brianmelendez: > > Woof, you give great answer! Smooth in and out details. Complete attention to engorged curiousity. > > Seriously, Brian,I’m not going to soon forget the difference between prescriptive and descriptive. Thanks.\*\* I’d love to take credit for that answer, but I should mention that it was written last year by John Rosenthal, who was filling in for William Safire writing the “On Language” column in _The New York Times Magazine_ (hence the reference to “the usual author of this column”). ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/78 "2003-04-27T21:43:40Z")
I received a private e-mail from **Walloon** (or someone claiming to be her) about six hours ago. Frankly, I was shocked by the things she had to say, and challenged her to post her views here in this thread. I’m tempted to do so myself since she hasn’t yet come forward, but because she disclosed a lot of sensitive personal information in her e-mail, I don’t want to violate her privacy by repeating everything. Suffice it to say that she seemed to be justifying her behaviour, or at least her contempt with the majority of participants on this thread, by citing unpleasant personal conditions beyond her control. **Walloon** , no matter how bad the conditions of your personal life are, I don’t see what bearing they possibly have on your predeliction for seeking out infinitessimally trivial grammar anomalies to “correct” in threads where people are trying to have a coherent discussion. (And I’m not just talking about the “media” issue here. You’ve been an unwelcome copy editor in many other cases.) Nor do I see how they ought to be taken into consideration when others raise legitimate complaints about said behaviour. Yes, I came down on you hard in my OP. This was done to shame you out of behaviour I and many others found to be rude and annoying. It was not intended to hold the entirety of your posting history to public ridicule, nor to kick you off the SDMB for good, as you seemed to imply in your message. If you have taken exception to the vociferousness of my post, you’re more than welcome to take out your frustrations on me in this thread itself. That is, after all, precisely what it’s for. I won’t be cowed into submission by a privately-sent irrelevant plea for sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/79 "2003-04-27T22:50:57Z")
I was wondering if my tread(sic) would be dragged into this. So would it be ok if I just changed my sig to (sp)? ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135/80 "2003-04-28T15:21:02Z")
And here I was giving **Walloon** the benefit of the doubt about not responding, thinking maybe she had other things to do than cruise the board over the weekend. Apparently I was wrong. **Walloon** , you pansy ass. If you’re sticking by your position, at least have the guts to come in here an express that position. Don’t hide behind personal emails while pretending that you’ve never even seen this thread. That’s just pathetic. _Man_ I can’t stand people who endulge in behavior that get’s them pitted, or in a heated debate, then run away like freakin’ scardy cats… :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walloon-you-pompous-assed-prescriptivist-grammar-nazi/171135.md?page=5)