# Walter Payton -- Cheatin' Drug Fiend? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 29, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963 "2011-09-29T02:02:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/21 "2011-09-29T20:27:59Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Taking pain killers isn’t “cheating” in the NFL. In the sport of football it’s almost a way of life. So are steroids. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/22 "2011-09-29T20:30:01Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I suspect that the book is largely positive and simply exposes a few personal flaws, extremely common and understandable ones at that, as a small part of a greater whole which largely is positive and confirms much of what was already believed about the guy. I don’t suspect that he’s revealing Walter to be Tiger Woods or Mike Webster, but the media 's representation of this book has painted that picture with it’s sensationalistic headlines. I would not be surprised if you’re right. The drug use and infidelity and suicide threat are getting the initial headlines because they’re so out of line with Payton’s public image, but that doesn’t mean the entire book is 400 pages of what a terrible guy Walter Payton was, and the author does not seem to think he was a horrible person. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/23 "2011-09-29T20:42:03Z")
[His widow acknowledges parts of it](http://www.suntimes.com/7933752-417/walter-paytons-widow-says-he-discussed-suicide-with-her.html) - meeting the mistress at the Hall of Fame induction, living essentially separate lives for the decade before his death, and his depression. She claims she didn’t see him even take a Tylenol, but if they had very separate lives, he might have been able to hide that from her. And yes, in an interview with the author on the local (Chicago) NBC affiliate last night, he said he has tremendous respect for Payton. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/24 "2011-09-29T21:03:07Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So are steroids. Yes, and as I said, it wouldn’t surprise me if he took those, too. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > [His widow acknowledges parts of it](http://www.suntimes.com/7933752-417/walter-paytons-widow-says-he-discussed-suicide-with-her.html) - meeting the mistress at the Hall of Fame induction, living essentially separate lives for the decade before his death, and his depression. She claims she didn’t see him even take a Tylenol, but if they had very separate lives, he might have been able to hide that from her. ^ This is what I meant earlier. If Connie knew about the infidelity but choose to keep the marriage intact for whatever reason that is her choice. I trust her to know what’s best for her family. She’s hardly the first woman to tolerate sharing her man. Note I said “tolerate” - I don’t assume she was happy about it. How people order their private affairs is their business. I’m not fond of tell-all “journalism” that feels compelled to drag it all out into the light of day. I’ve even less fond of sound-bites all too easily taken out of context and trotted through the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/25 "2011-09-29T21:03:40Z")
I had tremendous respect for Payton as a player (which, as a Packer fan, is saying something 😃 ). I agree with the earlier poster, that he was one of the all-around best football players of all time. Even back when he was alive, he was pretty well-known as a bit of an odd duck, and an exceptionally private person. The painkiller story doesn’t terribly surprise me…he was _not_ a big guy (the Bears listed him at 5’10", 200 lbs., but it’s commonly felt that he was both shorter and lighter than that). To have absorbed all the pounding he did, with that small body, I can easily imagine that he needed painkillers. The book (and the author) are already being widely dismissed here in the Chicago area, where Payton is still highly revered (and where his memory is still invoked for many reasons, including to encourage organ donation). But, from everything I can see, Pearlman did an incredible amount of research, and did not have an axe to grind. Even if there are particulars in the story which he may have not gotten 100% right, I don’t see any logical reason to doubt the overall narrative. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/26 "2011-09-29T21:06:18Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Likewise, depression and suicidal thoughts can occur even in people who outwardly appear very happy. As a football player, Peyton no doubt suffered his share of concussions. More and more it seems brain damage of some degree is an unavoidable side effect of a pro career. Such damage is also correlated with depression and suicide. Again, if he suffered from that it doesn’t diminish his accomplishments or the good he did in life. It’s just sad he had to struggle under that additional burden and to his credit that he was able to cope with it. Absolutely. It definitely looks as though that was the cause of emotional problems which Payton’s teammate Dave Duerson suffered, and which eventually led Duerson to kill himself earlier this year (but he intentionally did so in a way which preserved his brain to be studied). ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/27 "2011-09-29T21:47:29Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The painkiller story doesn’t terribly surprise me…he was _not_ a big guy (the Bears listed him at 5’10", 200 lbs., but it’s commonly felt that he was both shorter and lighter than that). To have absorbed all the pounding he did, with that small body, I can easily imagine that he needed painkillers. It should be noted that he essentially never missed a game too, unheard of for a running back. I’m curious if the story is that he “took a lot of pain-killers” or “recklessly abused them after retiring”. If it’s the former this is as much of a non-story as there can be. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/28 "2011-09-29T21:51:25Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’m curious if the story is that he “took a lot of pain-killers” or “recklessly abused them after retiring”. If it’s the former this is as much of a non-story as there can be. From the SI story I linked to upthread: > [@](#): > > Payton popped Darvon robotically during his playing days, says [his longtime agent Bud] Holmes, “I’d see him walk out of the locker room with jars of painkillers, and he’d eat them like they were a snack”, and also lathered his body with dimethyl sulfoxide, a topical analgesic commonly used to treat horses. Now that he was retired, the self-medicating only intensified. Payton habitually ingested a cocktail of Tylenol and Vicodin. In a particularly embarrassing episode, in 1988, Payton visited a handful of dental offices, complaining of severe tooth pain. He received several prescriptions for morphine and hit up a handful of drugstores to have them filled. When one of the pharmacists noticed the activity, he contacted the police, who arrived at Payton’s house and discussed the situation. Payton was merely issued a warning. “Walter was pounding his body with medication,” says Holmes. “I wish I knew how bad it was, but at the time I really didn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/29 "2011-09-29T22:05:59Z")
I should note that there is nothing illegal about DMSO and calling it a horse drug is about as useful as calling Lasix (a diuretic commonly used in both animals and humans) a veterinary drug. DMSO is a bit controversial but there’s a good sized alternative medicine crowd using it seemingly safely and reportedly effectively. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/30 "2011-09-29T22:51:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > From the SI story I linked to upthread: > [@](#): > > Payton habitually ingested a cocktail of Tylenol and Vicodin. Payton died of liver disease (and bile duct cancer). Both Tylenol and Vicodin contain acetaminophen, which can cause liver failure if taken excessively. Reading this, I wonder if there may not have been some connection. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/31 "2011-09-29T22:53:22Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > DMSO is a bit controversial but there’s a good sized alternative medicine crowd using it seemingly safely and reportedly effectively. I recall a _60 Minutes_ segment on DMSO, from the era during which Payton played, in which they interviewed an NFL player (I want to say it was June Jones) who swore by the stuff. I got the sense that there were a number of players who used it, but the guy they interviewed was the one willing to talk about it publicly. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/32 "2011-09-30T01:13:11Z")
Erratic and suicidal/ That is a good description of lots of ex football players. The effect of concussions shows up later and can be devastating. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/33 "2011-09-30T03:13:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I’d generally assume that most all players in the NFL consume pretty massive quantities of painkillers during the season, especially someone that takes the pounding a RB does, and even moreso in the 1970s/80s than now. It’s pretty well-documented. How could you play in the NFL and not take pain killers? I think the general public really underestimates just how brutal this sport is. By a lot. And my assumption is that any professional athlete at that level is cheating on his wife. I’m sure that there are a few exceptions, but these athletes aren’t chosen based on this sort of moral strength. And the opportunities are pretty crazy. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I’ve never gotten on the steroids bandwagon and I’ve made arguments as to why I don’t think it matters. I’m also not keen on giving the finger to Michael Vick because while what he did was despicable it’s over and done with, he did his time and that’s the end of it for me. I’m kinda with you. I see steroids as just another way athletes try to find the edge. In order to win. And cheating them as cheating before they were really against the rules is just dumb. Treating athletes who did do them as pariahs is just stupid (especially when we overlook other attempts to “cheat”). The anti-steroids hysteria is pretty tiresom. > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > To me, this was basically a non-story. If the items in the OP are all he did, he’s practically a saint in the sports world. Right. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I grew up in a culture that said either spouse cheating was bad. Hence, in my younger years all the fury. I am also female, and female humans have some biological interest in keeping their mate to themselves rather than having him spread his resources around along with his sperm. Yeah. Cheating is bad. Any betrayal of trust is bad. But to any one not directly involved, it should be, mostly, a non issue. > [@Broomstick](#): > > On the other hand, as I’ve gotten more experience in life I realize that the ideal I had been raised to accept wasn’t a great fit with the real world. That doesn’t mean I think cheating is OK, there’s a bunch of issues regarding breaking faith and promises, but I also think how other people conduct their marriages and sex lives isn’t any of my business. I may not tolerate a cheating partner in my life, but if someone else does it’s not my problem, not my business, and not something I’m going to worked up about any longer. Women (and men) have long put up with certain flaws in their marriages as a trade off for other benefits they get from the relationship. That’s why infidelity doesn’t always end in divorce. Exactly. Relationships are so complex that the knee jerk reaction serves no purpose. And really isn’t all that relevant to those of us not directly involved. It’s real easy to judge when we’re not actually there. As far as Peyton goes, I’d find it more crazy if he hadn’t taken painkillers. And if he cheated on his wife? Probably a _gasp_ human flaw, but that’s between him and his wife. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963/34 "2011-10-01T12:06:17Z")
Even if you don’t want to be friends with cheaters, even if you don’t want cheaters to represent you in Congress, it’s still silly to get upset about an athlete who cheats. And coming from someone who recreationally angry a lot, that’s saying something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/walter-payton-cheatin-drug-fiend/597963.md?page=1)