# WandaVision on Disney +. Open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094 "2021-01-21T14:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/409 "2021-02-11T19:31:07Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I don’t remember, but was Agnes wearing the brooch she always had in Episode 5? I don’t see where it would go on het aerobics outfit. I don’t see it on the aerobics outfit - but she was wearing it when she brought over the doghouse and later when she “finds” the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/410 "2021-02-11T19:43:11Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m actually a bit surprised that they haven’t called in Shuri, as she would be the most knowledgeable person about Vision, outside of Stark and Banner, and maybe more than either of them. I’m not. Shuri is a highly placed member of a foreign government - she might even be the leader of a foreign government now, depending on how they handle Chadwick Boseman’s death and where this TV series exists on the MCU timeline in relation to it. SWORD seems to be the sort of paranoid government agency that’s more concerned about keeping information classified than sharing it, even with someone who might be able to act more effectively on that information. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a Shuri cameo at some point in the show, but if it happens, I suspect it will be despite SWORD, not because of it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/411 "2021-02-11T19:53:35Z")
Especially if, as some of us presume, SWORD was up to no good with Vision’s corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/412 "2021-02-11T20:04:04Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > As an aside, as a non-comic reader, I really dislike the idea of the X-Men and Marvel supers teaming up and interacting in a single universe. I’ve seen that sentiment before here (maybe from you?) and find it kinda hilarious (no offense, hopefully.) It is like complaining that those Reeces Cups have both chocolate _and_ peanut butter, or that baseball has both bats _and_ balls. The interactions of the various Marvel teams are that fundamental a part of the Marvel Comicmatic Universe and always have been. By this point, pretty much every hero and half the villans in Marvel Comics has been a member of The Avengers _and_ The X-Men _and_ The Fantastic Four. (And dead.) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/413 "2021-02-11T20:18:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The interactions of the various Marvel teams are that fundamental a part of the Marvel Comicmatic Universe and always have been. Especially considering this show so far features characters from Ant-Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, and The Avengers ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/414 "2021-02-11T20:47:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I’ve seen that sentiment before here (maybe from you?) Okay, it was Atomic Alice and Just Asking Questions that brought it up last time. (Earlier in the thread, but I want to link this post) > [@Something that always bothered me about the X-Men](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/27): > > Yes. [17 characters](http://www.denofgeek.com/us/books-comics/avengers/245924/14-avengers-who-were-also-x-men) have been members of both the X-Men and the Avengers. Their first cross-over was in 1964. [Here is a list of 15 of them](https://www.cbr.com/avengers-x-men-the-15-greatest-crossovers/). ([Here](https://uncannyxmen.net/story-arc) are some other cross-over events, which doesn’t even count “minor” issue or two crossovers.) The MCU is really, really, really limited compared to the several decades of comic history. A mutant is someone born with “the X gene.” The majority of all comic titles produced by Marvel are in the same universe. [There was an arc a few years back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Mutants) involving… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/415 "2021-02-11T20:50:39Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I’ve seen that sentiment before here (maybe from you?) and find it kinda hilarious (no offense, hopefully.) It is like complaining that those Reeces Cups have both chocolate _and_ peanut butter, or that baseball has both bats _and_ balls. The interactions of the various Marvel teams are that fundamental a part of the Marvel Comicmatic Universe and always have been. By this point, pretty much every hero and half the villans in Marvel Comics has been a member of The Avengers _and_ The X-Men _and_ The Fantastic Four. (And dead.) I’m aware that this is the case in the comics world. I do not want that to happen in the cinematic world. I think the mainstream audience would reject it and there’s just not enough breathing room for all the exposition that would be needed to explain all the various changing of allegiances and scaling power sets and such. One of the big advantages to the MCU was that phase 3 (or whatever grouping is accurate) is that all the movies are essentially about the Infinity Stones and the Infinity War. It took like a dozen movies to really flesh all that out. You can’t have comic-style heel turns and all the other crazy shit in the movies without alienating a lot of casuals. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Especially considering this show so far features characters from Ant-Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, and The Avengers Those are all in the same “universe”, X-Men up until now, in the movies, live in a totally different universe with totally different rules. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/416 "2021-02-11T20:52:15Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Those are all in the same “universe”, X-Men up until now, in the movies, live in a totally different universe with totally different rules. Well, we still don’t know if that’s really how they’re introducing the X-Men into our universe. I’m assuming that most will be brand new actors. So we won’t be seeing Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen and Hugh Jackman. Similarly, when the Fantastic Four movie comes out, it’s going to be all new versions of those characters. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/417 "2021-02-11T20:53:27Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Those are all in the same “universe”, But that was _only_ through an accident of marketing rights. Slightly different ownership deals, and you would be complaining that Spiderman doesn’t belong in the MCU. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/418 "2021-02-11T20:57:59Z")
Certainly if only due to age. We already saw the First Class group of X-Men replacing the old fogeys. But in that case those are still existing in the same universe and the adversaries are all still mutants and the conflict is entirely terrestrial (except maybe Apocalypse). I hope the Disney-Marvel version retains that. Fantastic 4 is a totally different animal. They align more with the MCU characters in style and theme already so if they get introduced I’ll be fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/419 "2021-02-11T22:06:13Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’m aware that this is the case in the comics world. I do not want that to happen in the cinematic world. I think the mainstream audience would reject it and there’s just not enough breathing room for all the exposition that would be needed to explain all the various changing of allegiances and scaling power sets and such. One of the big advantages to the MCU was that phase 3 (or whatever grouping is accurate) is that all the movies are essentially about the Infinity Stones and the Infinity War. It took like a dozen movies to really flesh all that out. You can’t have comic-style heel turns and all the other crazy shit in the movies without alienating a lot of casuals. They made a movie about a WWII veteran, a Norse God of Thunder struggling with depression, and a talking space raccoon, involving time travel, alien planets, and literal Asgard, during which three characters - who had been introduced as villains in two different movies and turned into heroes in four different movies - were turned back into villains, only to, respectively, immediately turn into a good guy again, get murdered by a good guy version of herself from the future, and get a six episode miniseries on Disney+. The movie made over a billion dollars. But, yeah, comic book weirdness and heel turns totally alienate “mainstream” audiences. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/420 "2021-02-11T22:24:29Z")
Yup. Fans will stomach fantastical powers and places. They won’t tolerate characters who betray their backstory and act in ways that are wholly inconsistent with their belief systems as defined in previous films. Civil War worked because they spent a lot of time building to the Cap-Stark conflict. The motives were grey and the lines were blurry. Even when the “good guys” fought, they weren’t really willing to hurt or kill their opponents. The characters all remained true to who their origin story said they were. The comics aren’t nearly so delicate. Loki flip flopping between good and bad makes sense in the context of his relationship with Odin and Thor. Ditto Nebula with Thanos and Gamora. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver didn’t really flip flop so much get liberated from their subjugation, they chose right over wrong the moment it was made clear they were on the wrong side. Winter Solder was brainwashed. These are all pretty nuanced and were handled carefully over the course of several films. I think people would stay home if they tried to do the Secret Empire version of Captain America. But, this is really a completely different discussion than the one I started. X-Men are more interesting to me as inhabiting their own universe and their own continuity without crossing over with the MCU. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/421 "2021-02-11T22:29:43Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > But, this is really a completely different discussion than the one I started. X-Men are more interesting to me as inhabiting their own universe and their own continuity without crossing over with the MCU. I’m not sure if your issue is with the X-Men in general or the pre-exisiting Fox stories. The X-Men will not be “crossing over” with the MCU anymore than Spider-man “crosses over.” Now, I don’t know what’s going on with Quicksilver, but I can guarantee you, that all the other mutant movies in the MCU will be brand new versions and not follow the canon of the Fox universe. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/422 "2021-02-11T22:37:50Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Yup. Fans will stomach fantastical powers and places. They won’t tolerate characters who betray their backstory and act in ways that are wholly inconsistent with their belief systems as defined in previous films. Which has what to do with bringing the X-Men into the MCU? What does Secret Empire have to do with anything? I don’t understand the relevance of anything thing in this post. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/423 "2021-02-11T22:52:24Z")
I don’t have any issue with the X-Men. I actually really, really like those movies and those stories. They had some missteps along the way, but in general I’d say they did an excellent job. I’d like to see Disney do more of the same, however that pans out. I’m just hoping they reestablish the X-Men universe as it’s own thing. I’d rather have two distinct “worlds” to visit in the theaters instead of just one mashed up one. I’m not sure why you can be so sure that the X-Men won’t cross over. The inclusion of Evan Peter’s Quicksilver here certainly signals that is maybe happening. I hope you’re right, but this turn of events cast that in some doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/424 "2021-02-11T22:53:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which has what to do with bringing the X-Men into the MCU? What does Secret Empire have to do with anything? I don’t understand the relevance of anything thing in this post. I literally just said that’s a completely different discussion… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/425 "2021-02-11T22:55:44Z")
Okay, well, do you want to respond to the discussion we were actually having? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/426 "2021-02-11T23:01:05Z")
Not really, I didn’t start the digression into comics world stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/427 "2021-02-11T23:10:40Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That seems the obvious choice, so I don’t know that I trust it. As to why, she is currently “resurrecting” Vision, so I would think that it would be a test to see the limits of her powers. To see if she _can_ bring Sparky back, and if so, how she does it, and what the effects on Sparky are. …some have pointed out that earlier Sparky tried to “kill himself” at the electrical socket: hence the name Sparky. So it might have been Agnes. Or Wanda. Or Sparky. Just layers on layers with this show 😃 Love it. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/428 "2021-02-12T00:40:23Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’m not sure why you can be so sure that the X-Men won’t cross over. The inclusion of Evan Peter’s Quicksilver here certainly signals that is maybe happening. I hope you’re right, but this turn of events cast that in some doubt. Because the last two movies were critical and commercials, pretty much all the big actors involved are done with the roles, and the continuity is a complete mess. Now, I think some actors might get reused like Evan Peters or Dafne Keene as X-23 (which was technically from another alternate universe anyway), but for the most part Feige wants a fresh start. Now this excludes Deadpool, which is a horse of another color. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=22)