# WandaVision on Disney +. Open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094 "2021-01-21T14:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/569 "2021-02-15T19:38:53Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I believe the common language in Marvel is “mutant” specifically refers to powers derived from the X-Gene while “mutate” means they were changed by something else. > [@Miller](#): > > I think “mutate” in Marvel comics is basically the same category as “Altered Humans” in **kenobi** ’s post - people who got powers by exposure to something after they were born, as opposed to being born with it. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I don’t think there’s really a general term for non-Mutants born with powers (because there’s not that many in the Marvel universe). You need the X-Gene to be a Mutant. That’s pretty much it. Back in the '80s, when a few Marvel writers and editors actually tried to systematize and keep all of this stuff straight (RIP Mark Gruenwald), the official distinction was that a muta **nt** was born with a benevolent mutation granting them powers. A muta **te** was exposed to something that mutated them, granting them powers. Cf. the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, the Savage Land Mutates. In the canon of the time, _all_ humans had the capacity for benevolent mutation, due to the genetic tampering of the giant armored space gods/ancient astronauts known as the Celestials deep in our prehistory. The only difference between muta **nt** s and muta **te** s was when they developed their benevolent mutation. Sentinels treated them all the same - during Chris Claremont’s run on the X-books, anyway, in all of the dark futures where Sentinels exterminated the mutants, the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man were among their first targets. IIRC, the X-gene came later, and IIUC, in the current Marvel canon (when writers and editors remember it), muta **nt** s carry the X-gene are genetically mutated. Muta **te** s (aka Altered Humans in the old Marvel RPG) gain powers later, lack the X-gene, and generally are not genetically mutated. Except their kids all tend to be powered, which would seem to indicate that they _have_ been genetically mutated, but…I guess not due to the X-gene. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/570 "2021-02-15T19:43:27Z")
Does anyone remember who gave Vision the chewing gum in the neighborhood watch/magic show episode? At the time, it seemed to me like a silly sitcom contrivance, but in retrospect it sure seems like Something Significant. I’m wondering if the “gum” wasn’t the altered reality manifestation of a device or something that was supposed to re-program or de-program Vision. The literal “gumming up of the works” and the resulting “drunkenness” seems like it may well have been the at least semi-intentional result of someone trying to intervene, and whoever gave Vision the gum may be Someone Significant. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/571 "2021-02-15T19:48:11Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > IIRC, the X-gene came later, and IIUC, in the current Marvel canon (when writers and editors remember it), muta **nt** s carry the X-gene are genetically mutated. I **I** RC, the X-Men were originally all children of people who had been exposed to nuclear radiation one way or another, which altered their genes and caused their kids to have super powers. Hence the old “Children of the Atom” tagline. Getting this back to something remotely on topic, I just read that the last three episodes are going to be an hour long! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/572 "2021-02-15T20:02:31Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Does anyone remember who gave Vision the chewing gum in the neighborhood watch/magic show episode? It was Carl, who like Agnes, seems to be somewhat aware of the nature of the hex. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/573 "2021-02-15T20:43:13Z")
Do you mean Herb? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/574 "2021-02-15T20:46:13Z")
Yes, not sure where I got Carl From. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/575 "2021-02-15T20:52:16Z")
Me neither but I keep wanting to call Vision’s white friend, Lenny. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/576 "2021-02-15T20:53:36Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > t was Carl, who like Agnes, seems to be somewhat aware of the nature of the hex. > [@mikecurtis](#): > > Do you mean Herb? > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Yes, not sure where I got Carl From. Thanks. So, yet another indicator that Herb is Someone Significant (if the gum turns out to be Something Significant). But, unless there was a lot more to the “gum” than we saw, that actually makes it seem _less_ likely that Herb is secretly the Big Bad - it only had a transient effect, and seemed like a _failed_ attempt to do _something_ to Vision. It didn’t seem like something that would be a part of a Big Bad’s plan. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/577 "2021-02-15T21:13:35Z")
I took the gum thing as Wanda (or someone) filling up Wanda and Vision’s lives with the usual sitcom events - trivial, mildly amusing and easily recoverable from (as part of the efforts of Wanda (or whoever) to create a superficially normal life, subject to sitcom tropes). ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/578 "2021-02-15T21:17:39Z")
That’s certainly plausible. It just seemed to me, in retrospect, like there might have been something more going on there. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/579 "2021-02-15T21:50:08Z")
I think there is something more with the Gum Incident. Herb specifically mentioned Big Red Gum, which, by the way, is yet another anachronism that cropped up. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/580 "2021-02-15T22:26:13Z")
And Mephisto has been called “big red” on more than one occasion… [https://images.app.goo.gl/4JySPjUfQtWzvhCFA](https://images.app.goo.gl/4JySPjUfQtWzvhCFA) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/581 "2021-02-15T22:28:45Z")
Oh, yeah, the “Red” theme may still pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/582 "2021-02-16T01:04:21Z")
I think I know who the villain is. They showed us in the first episode. [Right there on the calendar.](https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.WqA8~2eefa/w:auto/h:auto/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Calendar-_-Marvel-Studios-WandaVision-_-Disney-0-17-screenshot.jpg) It’s not Mephisto - not quite. [It’s Blackheart.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackheart) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/583 "2021-02-16T01:19:46Z")
The gum is free will and/or his literal soul. In the first episode, Vision is a puppet. He can’t even intervene to save a man from choking without getting permission. The “gum” changes that - after the second episode, he stops accepting the charade around him, and can do things like continue an argument after the credits roll, or invent his own subplot in the Halloween episode to give him an excuse to go investigating. Whatever being is giving Wanda the power to do all this slipped it to Vision as part of the standard, “Fulfilling the letter of the deal ruins the person seeking the deal” aspect of diabolic pacts: Wanda was promised a life with Vision, but the “real” Vision wouldn’t let all this strangeness pass unnoticed and just do what Wanda tells him, and thus the whole illusion unravels itself, without ever violating the actual wording of the contract. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/584 "2021-02-16T02:02:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He can’t even intervene to save a man from choking without getting permission. The “gum” changes that - after the second episode, he stops accepting the charade around him, and can do things like continue an argument after the credits roll, or invent his own subplot in the Halloween episode to give him an excuse to go investigating. Except that didn’t happen until later. He gets the gum pulled out and he goes back to normal. And remember he was questioning some things right from the beginning, like what they were computing at the office. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/585 "2021-02-16T02:36:22Z")
It does seem to fit nicely with other pieces. Dormammu already introduced, and not too happy, I’m sure, with the upstart that got the better of him. The upcoming _Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness_. The bandied-about theory that the next big thrust of the MCU will revolve around multiple dimensions (or was it more mystical?). Thanos came after introductions (Chitauri, GOTG and that Stone), so Blackheart could well be an introduction to the Mephisto angle. I’ve lost my train of thought. Why did I come into this room? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/586 "2021-02-16T02:55:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s Blackheart Ooo, nice! Daddy’s little boy. But, does that mean that Vision’s boss Mr Hart is Blackheart or someone else? And it could be that Westview was established as a Hell mouth on earth and so all of the inhabitants are demons or dead already. When Herb was “trimming the hedges” he said “because we’re all…” but was hushed by Agnes before he finished. Maybe the last part of that statement was “already dead” or “demons”… ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/587 "2021-02-16T03:15:09Z")
And (doing a little research) Blackheart has ties to Ghost Rider, the Punisher, Dormamu, Hela, and Spiderman. Intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/588 "2021-02-16T12:06:15Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > And (doing a little research) Blackheart has ties to Ghost Rider, the Punisher, Dormamu, Hela, and Spiderman … … and has a recent comics storyline with Falcon and Iron Patriot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=30)