# WandaVision on Disney +. Open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094 "2021-01-21T14:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/589 "2021-02-17T00:27:33Z")
Just binge watched so a little behind the thread. My pet (and very wrong theory) is that the SWORD director hired Evan Peters to play Quicksilver inside the hex and get information - hence all of the questions. So in WandaVision Evan Peters is playing Evan Peters playing Quicksilver. How does he get his superspeed then? It’s an effect of Wanda’s reality believing hi to be Quicksilver. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/590 "2021-02-17T00:44:14Z")
…I saw another theory out there today, and its become my favourite one, even though it is unlikely. But the theory is the big bad is…there is no big bad. The show is just what the show is. An extended meditation on suffering and grief. I would love the show to be just that, however I’m not getting my hopes up that this will be the case 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/591 "2021-02-17T03:11:52Z")
I’ve seen at as well, and I rather like it also. Of course, in this case, Wanda would technically be the “Big Bad”, but she’s acting out of grief and need. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/592 "2021-02-17T04:29:22Z")
Saw an [article](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wandavision-toy-may-spoil-a-major-marvel-twist_n_602c09f0c5b65ff1f6033178) on Huffpost stating Funko was putting out Pop! versions of Wanda, Vision and Pietro in their Halloween costumes, only Pietro’s packaging has his name listed as “Pietro Maximoff” – dun dun DUNNN!! ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/593 "2021-02-17T04:38:37Z")
That was how he was billed in the fake sitcom credits: “and Pietro Maximoff as himself”. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/594 "2021-02-17T04:44:33Z")
IMHO - I would prefer that this be Wanda ‘acting out’ and its all her - no excuses, no being someone else’s puppet, etc - Simply because I think this story is more interesting in that case… BUT If we imagine how powerful she is, and how upset she is now - just imagine how much more pissed and powerful she’s gonna be when she finds out she has gone thru all this grief and loss again at the hands of someone playing her. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/595 "2021-02-17T04:47:48Z")
The potential spoiler with the Funko thing is: Pietro is the only character whose name on the box is in scare quotes. Vision’s is just Vision, Wanda’s is just Wanda Maximoff, but his is “Pietro Maximoff.” ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/596 "2021-02-17T17:49:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The gum is free will and/or his literal soul. Except it made him _drunk_. That doesn’t seem like a metaphor for (re)gaining his free will and/or literal soul. And Wanda _removed_ the gum, which restored him to his “normal” behavior. I agree with you, he seemed significantly more aware and independent after the gum incident, which is why I speculated it might have been an intentional act to de- or re-program him, with the “gum” being the reality-bubble contortion of a device to deliver a virus or new programming or whatever. So, even after Wanda removed the gum, the changes had already been initiated. The “drunkenness” was a sitcom literalization of a “virurs” or Vision re-booting with the new data/programming or some combination. Or something. Maybe. Or maybe it was just a throwaway silly sitcom plot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/597 "2021-02-17T18:00:01Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Except it made him _drunk_ . That doesn’t seem like a metaphor for (re)gaining his free will and/or literal soul. And Wanda _removed_ the gum, which restored him to his “normal” behavior. Look, how many resurrected sythezoids have _you_ re-ensouled? Maybe that’s just what happens when you do that. And Wanda removes the gum after it’s been in him all day, Obviously, at that point, all the “soul” flavor would have been chewed out! I’m not actually all that sold on the “gum=soul” idea. I do think, _if_ the gum is significant, _and_ there’s a suprnatural big bad involved, then the gum’s significance is probably also supernatural. But I suspect it’s just gum, and “Big Red” is just a jokey reference to Vision himself. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/598 "2021-02-17T18:02:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I saw another theory out there today, and its become my favourite one, even though it is unlikely. But the theory is the big bad is…there is no big bad. The show is just what the show is. An extended meditation on suffering and grief. I would love the show to be just that, however I’m not getting my hopes up that this will be the case 🙂 > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’ve seen at as well, and I rather like it also. > Of course, in this case, Wanda would technically be the “Big Bad”, but she’s acting out of grief and need. > [@simster](#): > > IMHO - I would prefer that this be Wanda ‘acting out’ and its all her - no excuses, no being someone else’s puppet, etc - Simply because I think this story is more interesting in that case… I think the clues so far point to there being some sort of Big Bad who initiated the reality bubble and is manipulating Wanda for their own purposes. But, that could be a double-bluff, and Monica was right the first time when she said, “It’s Wanda. It’s all Wanda.” But, as I opined a couple of times upthread, if that’s true, then Wanda is _not_ a tragic hero in crisis. She’s a _villain_. And Director Guy is absolutely right, about everything\*. We know that the inhabitants of Westview are, on some level, conscious of the fact that they’re being puppetted. And it _hurts_. It’s a literal living hell. _Thousands_ of victims, undergoing constant, never-ending torture. Judging by what Vision sees on Halloween, those “off-screen” remain _conscious_ and _aware_ of their condition, _the entire time_. No respite, no sleep, just a constant, continual, never-ending nightmare. Many of them are parents. “Pietro” suggests that Wanda’s been keeping the kids sleeping in their beds and unaware, which might be the case (it’s pretty much the best case scenario), but then for the Halloween episode, she brings them out. So those are _children_, being puppetted, aware on some level that they’re being puppetted, and again, it _hurts_. And their _parents_ are aware their children are being puppetted and it _hurts_. From what we’ve seen so far, Wanda, if she is actually behind everything, is the most monstrous villain the MCU has produced. Thanos at least gave most of his victims a quick death. Even Purple Man’s mind-rapes in _Jessica Jones_ weren’t this bad. His victims weren’t aware they were being puppetted until after they escaped his control, and his puppetting didn’t cause them pain. Not to mention the sheer scale of what Wanda’s doing… \*That’s one reason I think there narratively pretty much has to be a Big Bad behind things. If there is, by cinematic convention, Monica and Jimmy Woo can get away with multiple violent felonies, because they were right about how to resolve the crisis. If they’re wrong, and Director Guy is right, they assaulted Federal agents, beat them unconscious, kidnapped and unlawfully confined them, stole their weapons and gear, intruded into classified government computer systems, and committed various other miscellaneous crimes, with _no_ extenuating circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/599 "2021-02-17T18:04:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Look, how many resurrected sythezoids have _you_ re-ensouled? Maybe that’s just what happens when you do that. That’s a valid point. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/600 "2021-02-17T18:29:28Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > then Wanda is _not_ a tragic hero in crisis. She’s a _villain_ . The best villains were heroes with a tragic arc that leads to them being villains. And who we can hope can have a redemptive arc as well, even if they never do. That said, if this was required to, say prevent the return of Ultron using Vision’s body, would she be a pure villain? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/601 "2021-02-17T18:46:57Z")
You mean, if it were for some reason necessary for her to subject thousands of innocent men, women, and _children_ to constant, never-ending torture in order to stop Ultron from returning? Yes, she would still be a pure villain. Let Ultron return, then destroy him again. How would Ultron’s return be any worse than what she’s doing? (And how would that even work? How would the reality bubble stop Ultron’s return? Why would that be the only way? And why would it require her to trap thousands of innocent victims with her and subject them to constant, never-ending torture?) ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/602 "2021-02-17T19:15:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The best villains were heroes with a tragic arc that leads to them being villains. And who we can hope can have a redemptive arc as well, even if they never do. Sure. The MCU’s Helmut Zemo wanted revenge on superheroes for the death of his family, innocent bystanders in superhuman battle, and killed a lot of innocent bystanders himself in his quest for revenge. That’s twisted, but understandable. Innocent civilians _had_ to die for his plan to work, and in his mind, he’s probably actually ultimately _saving_ lives down the line. Similarly, the FoX-Men Magneto committed any number of atrocities to “save” mutants. Especially in the earlier movies, his quest to save mutants seemed tangled up with his own ego, which made him an interesting, complex villain, and, as you say, at least potentially a redeemable one. But, again, his atrocities were necessary for his plans to succeed. But look at what Wanda is actually doing. If all she wants is a fantasy life with Vision, she could have done that without any innocent victims. We know from the post-Civil War movies that Black Widow had trained her in living undercover and off the grid, including carrying on a clandestine romance with Vision. If she had broken into SWORD, stolen his body, created a twisted revenant of him, and hid out in disguise in a small town, that would have been creepy, and villainous in treating Vision as a fantasy object and not an autonomous individual. But it would have been understandable and _proportional_. That would set her up, at least potentially, as a tragic hero who could be redeemed. But instead, she’s mind-raping _thousands_ of random innocent people, including _children_, to try to create her fantasy life. That’s not just twisted, it’s _monstrous_. _If_ she’s being manipulated, and is just willfully blind to the suffering of everyone around her due to her grief and loss and rage, she’s _potentially_ redeemable. But if this is all her doing, if she _knowingly_ set up the reality bubble and dragged in all of those innocent victims, that’s villainous selfishness on a level I think is unprecedented in the MCU. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/603 "2021-02-17T19:18:49Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > How would Ultron’s return be any worse than what she’s doing? I mean, Ultron did nearly wipe out all life on Earth. And they’d face him again without Iron Man, Cap, and potentially Vision. But we’re entering the trolley problem here. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/604 "2021-02-17T19:21:26Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > But if this is all her doing, if she _knowingly_ set up the reality bubble and dragged in all of those innocent victims, that’s villainous selfishness on a level I think is unprecedented in the MCU. That is part of the reason that I think that there has to be someone else involved. She could probably mind control the whole town, but she’s never shown powers of actually altering reality.(In the MCU, anyway, I have no idea in the comics.) She may be unaware of the harm she is doing, and she may even be a victim herself. My assumption is that she was grieving over losing Vision, and someone offered to help her to bring him back, and she agreed without asking the price. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/605 "2021-02-17T19:23:54Z")
Wanda can be a villain of the deepest dye who needs to be stopped as soon as possible (and the evidence is thus far that she is) - but Hayward can still be wrong. By analogy, if a crazed hostage-taker is holding people prisoner, and tormenting them, going in with guns blazing may still be wrong, because it puts the hostages at risk. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/606 "2021-02-17T19:24:08Z")
In the comics, she absolutely can control reality. The “Avengers Disassembled” and “House of M” storylines revealed that all the previous explanations of her powers, which even by comic book standards were incoherent, were all incoherent _in-universe_, because her actual power had always been that she could shape reality. And she was profoundly insane. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/607 "2021-02-17T19:26:28Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Wanda can be a villain of the deepest dye who needs to be stopped as soon as possible (and the evidence is thus far that she is) - but Hayward can still be wrong. By analogy, if a crazed hostage-taker is holding people prisoner, and tormenting them, going in with guns blazing may still be wrong, because it puts the hostages at risk. Ok, that’s valid. But that seems like a genuine dilemma. I don’t think someone advocating to go in guns blazing and damn the consequences to stop the torture is objectively wrong. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/608 "2021-02-17T19:27:59Z")
Interesting, seems odd that she got those powers from the Mind Stone, rather than the Reality Stone, but that’s comic book logic for ya. Any heros/villians actually get their powers from the reality stone (as opposed to just borrowing them for a while, ala Thanos on Knowhere)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=31)