# WandaVision on Disney +. Open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094 "2021-01-21T14:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/750 "2021-02-21T22:09:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I re-watched Captain Marvel last night, and I was reminded that space travel in the MCU involves [traveling through hex-shaped portals.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/e/ed/Jump_Point.png/revision/latest?cb=20170810211505) I have no idea if this is significant, but it’s interesting that they’ve used “giant glowy floating hexes” in two different contexts in the MCU. > > Maybe the MCU is fundamentally a hex-based universe? Yeah, I noticed that as well. Hex-shaped space portals were also used in the Guardians of the Galaxy movies and Infinity War and Endgame. But, I’m not sure what the direct connection would be. Westview still seems to be on Earth, just caught within a reality distortion field. And people and objects entering and exiting it don’t do so through a hex-shaped aperture. My guess is the barrier of the distortion field is made up of glowing hexes because, well, Scarlet Witch. Hex. It’s a visual pun. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/751 "2021-02-21T22:13:58Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Captain Marvel is my number 1 movie and Thor Ragnarok is my number two… I’m with **MaxTheVool** on _Captain Marvel_. Middle of the pack, and kind of meh. Of course, that’s largely because I’ve been spoiled by over a decade of MCU movies. If _Captain Marvel_ had come out around 2000, I’m sure I would have thought it was _amazing_. But, after _Iron Man_, _Captain America: The First Avenger_, _Avengers_, and so on…it wasn’t _bad_, but just not _great_, and I’ve gotten used to at least the potential for great. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/752 "2021-02-21T22:31:12Z")
Hexagonal is also a cool shape (just like nexus is cool word). 🙂 Maybe there IS an implied universal field that connects magic to space travel? After all as long as it follows rules magic is just science by another name. Some famous quote about that, isn’t there? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/753 "2021-02-21T22:56:03Z")
I understand this perspective and largely agree with what you’ve said. But I think that a female character can still have agency working for or with a male “Big Bad” if she’s doing so for her own ends and she’s shown to be consciously working to achieve them. Plus, I don’t want Agnes/Agatha to be the Big Bad because Marvel main villains are almost uniformly terrible. They’re pretty much all interchangeable, MacGuffin-powered, evil-for-the-sake-of-evil mustache-twirlers with no comprehensible motivation or character development. Tom Hiddleston at least made Loki fun to watch. But Kathryn Hahn would be wasted as the latest world-threatening ball-of-evil that the heroes need to punch into submission. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/754 "2021-02-21T23:06:29Z")
Indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/755 "2021-02-21T23:12:45Z")
If we’re gonna do Identity Politics and box ticking then lets form The Ultimates as soon as possible. A fantastic line-up that in-universe just happens to not have any white males and avoids all the bullshit the singular characters books (Captain Marvel, America) love to wade in. Edit: In case any mods arn’t aware, this is relevant cause Monica is a crucial part of The Ultimates. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/756 "2021-02-21T23:13:43Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Westview still seems to be on Earth Somewhere near Cherry Hill, but to Kat Dennings, I’m sure it’s just some new town. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/757 "2021-02-22T00:24:15Z")
I don’t think box ticking is required. But when you have a movie that features women as the characters of most agency, and highlight the progress of women’s place in our society in media by starting off with the world of '50s sitcoms, undermining that at the end would be a shame, sort of Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown, returning to the _real_ power being in the hands of the men. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/758 "2021-02-22T00:35:23Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I know nothing from Nightmare but it sounds like none of the potential reveals are Big Bad and female. And IF this does turn out that this show’s strong women characters with powerful agency are all outranked by more powerful men who have controlled them (Big Bad or Bads to be revealed) or rescue them (Doctor Strange to come), there may be a bit of a deserved backlash. > > Right now we have this show pretty much failing a reversed Bechdel test - pretty much any male in this show is talking about a female character whether there is a female character in scene with them or not, let alone with another male. And it works wonderfully! > > Any hope of a gender neutral evil spirit in the MCU? There’s still the “float way” commercial which mentioned awakening the _goddess_ within, so the ultimate Big Bad might still wind up being an evil goddess. There’s honestly not much to choose from, there. Hela, who was already killed in _Ragnarok_, is the only female god or god-level entity I can think of, off-hand. There are a couple of Lovecraftian entities like Shuma-Gorath for whom “gender” would be a meaningless concept. Blackheart and Chthon are coded as male and male pronouns are used to refer to them, but they’re only vaguely humanoid. They could just as well be genderless, or vaguely female. Mephisto is pretty solidly coded as male, and I don’t think a gender-flipped version of him would work very well. But while Nightmare is depicted with a male form in the comics, I don’t think male-ness is really an important element of its character - the “male” form is really more of a human projection onto a quasi-cosmic entity. And, for that matter, the way “he” is usually depicted could easily be seen as gender-fluid or non-binary. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/759 "2021-02-22T00:35:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Many of the reviewers (and I read the reviews), especially male reviewers, missed the point of Danver’s character arc. That was an interesting read. I haven’t seen it in a while so I can’t comment on whether it showed that as a clear arc or just dropped some scenes in at the beginning and the end to look like change had occurred without showing the change process. I thought it was a good, but not great, film. I didn’t think there was much of a character arc but a lot of superhero/action films are flat character arcs - the whole point is that they withstand whatever pressure the plot throws at them and maintain their strength and integrity. So I wasn’t looking too deeply. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/760 "2021-02-22T00:45:50Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > There’s honestly not much to choose from, there. Hela, who was already killed in _Ragnarok_ , is the only female god or god-level entity I can think of, off-hand. There’s Oshtur, a goddess who shows up in a lot of Doctor Strange stories. Her bag is the creation of magical relics and traveling between dimensions (multiverses). ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/761 "2021-02-22T01:07:51Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > It’s a small point, but Dr. Kat knows a LOT about the Avengers and what all happened vs. Thanos. How does she know all that stuff? Maybe she’s met Luis? ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/762 "2021-02-22T01:09:32Z")
Theres also Gaia…theres Umar…Snowbird… ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/763 "2021-02-22T01:26:31Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > There’s Oshtur, a goddess who shows up in a lot of Doctor Strange stories. Her bag is the creation of magical relics and traveling between dimensions (multiverses). I don’t think I’ve ever heard of her before. But, looks like she’s been around since 1972, so she’s got a bit of a pedigree. Still, she seems awfully obscure for the Big Bad. > [@Pavelb1](#): > > Theres also Gaia…theres Umar…Snowbird… Gaia is the Earth goddess, definitely not a villain. Snowbird is only a demigod, and superhero. However, I did forget about Umar. Like Oshtur, she still seems a bit obscure. Plus side, she’s Dormammu’s sister, and he was already introduced in _Doctor Strange_, so…maybe. Thinking about it some more, there’s also Karnilla the Norn Queen. But, I don’t think they’re going to want to use yet another Norse villain, outside of the Thor movies. There’s also Morgan Le Fay. Plus side, she’s fairly well-known to the general public from the Arthurian mythos, so she’d be recognizable even to viewers who aren’t Marvel comics super-fans. She’s also traditionally a witch and/or patron of witches, so she makes sense as Agatha’s patron. But I don’t think she’s really tied into the Marvel Universe tightly enough. That very familiarity to non-comics readers makes it hard to use her without making it seem like a direct reference to the Arthurian mythos, which I don’t think is a road they want to go down. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/764 "2021-02-22T01:58:42Z")
Agatha wasn’t particularly a villain either…Gaia isnt one true, but a lot of her relatives are. And Snowbirds mission transcends good and evil. There’s Saturnyne in that Captain Britain mess. Morgan Le Fay can fit there. Black Knight\* can fit in there. \*Just trying to figure out an interesting cast in a Captain Britain/Arthurian Legend/MCU pic ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/765 "2021-02-22T02:16:08Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > @MaxTheVool, @Alessan, @Banquet_Bear: > > I think there’s a good deal of confusion because **Alessan** didn’t name the film with a primary female **an** tagonist they were referring to. Correct me if I’m wrong, **Alessan** , but I believe you were referring to _Thor: Ragnarok_, which had a female primary **an** tagonist, Hela, while **MaxTheVool** and **Banquet\_Bear** thought you were referring to _Captain Marvel_, which had a female primary **pro** tagonist. I actually thought of Ghost from _Ant-Man and the Wasp_ before anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/766 "2021-02-22T02:23:37Z")
The Karnilla ref jusy made me realize we haven’t even seen Balder yet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/767 "2021-02-22T02:49:14Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > There’s also Morgan Le Fay. Plus side, she’s fairly well-known to the general public from the Arthurian mythos, so she’d be recognizable even to viewers who aren’t Marvel comics super-fans. She’s also traditionally a witch and/or patron of witches, so she makes sense as Agatha’s patron. But I don’t think she’s really tied into the Marvel Universe tightly enough. That very familiarity to non-comics readers makes it hard to use her without making it seem like a direct reference to the Arthurian mythos, which I don’t think is a road they want to go down. Apparently, they’ve cast Kit Harrington as Black Knight, I think for the Eternals movie. So, Arthurian mythos seems like it’s going to make its way into the MCU one way or the other, but I agree it would be a weird curveball for the resolution to _WandaVision_. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/768 "2021-02-22T03:52:19Z")
Gut says we will see but a shadow of the real ‘big bad’ that is pulling Agnes’ strings (assuming that is the case) - much like we only saw a hint of Thanos at the end of The Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/769 "2021-02-22T11:34:22Z")
On the “hex” theme, the Facebook ads now popping up in my feed show Woo/Lewis in Mulder/Scully-style poses with the inevitable tagline “The Hex Files”. Not sure if that’s indicative of things to come, or just the show’s little joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=39)