# WandaVision on Disney +. Open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094 "2021-01-21T14:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1150 "2021-03-05T23:06:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > For the unintiated: Basically, magical forces wanted Wanda to bear children because her special nature would make those children extremely powerful and valuable. I know this is probably pointless to ask about a comic book plot, but would this even count as bearing children? Being all magicky and stuff. Does Wanda actually have kids in the comics or is it just something that will happen in the future? Overall, I would give it a B. Entertaining and a pretty good plot. I almost bailed on the sitcom parts because I have zero knowledge of any of them so any similarities were lost on me. I also had to look up who exactly Monica Rambo (yes, I know) was in universe. I didn’t recall her character from the movies so I wondered how she seemed to have powers. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1151 "2021-03-05T23:19:01Z")
Just finished watching the finale after work, and: I thought Evan Peters playing Pietro being just an Easter Egg/fakeout was a _terrible_ creative decision. It’s a _massive_ audience cheat. After all of that, Wanda just gets to walk away? That’s…no. She’s a super-villain. Fine, I get that she didn’t really realize how awful living in Fake Westview was for everyone, but that’s only because she thought she had _completely_ overwritten them instead of partially. She thought she was just a mass-murderer, not a mass torturer. She’s still _awful_. “They’ll never know what you sacrificed for them.” The \*@(%?! What _she_ sacrificed for _them_? She _mind-raped_ them. To assuage _her_ grief. Oh, boo hoo, she had to “sacrifice” Vision and her children. Well, that’s here _own doing_. She’s the one who not only created a fantasy world with a fantasy husband and fantasy children, she abducted and enslaved thousands of innocent people. I _really_ think the creators screwed this up. Wanda’s _not_ a tragic hero. She’s _not_ a victim. She’s unbelievably selfish and self-centered. She’s a villain. I’m even more in favor of a drone strike to the head than I was before. And what, exactly, was Hayward arrested for? Wanda knew SWORD had Vision’s body. They weren’t keeping that secret. Hayward appears to have had the legal right to have possession of it. He appears to have been legitimately in charge of the taskforce that was dealing with the Westview anomaly. I guess the drone strike? And, yeah, shooting at kids, but that was _after_ Woo had said he was calling in reinforcements from the FBI. And if his orders were that blatantly illegal, I guess every SWORD agent onsite other than Monica is also going to jail? I agree with whoever posted upthread, he seemed like he was a generic @$$hole government official who was an @$$hole for the sake of being an @$$hole. Really disappointing. Even after all that, though…a _lot_ of elements were really well done. The acting was excellent, the specific scenes were really well written (even if there were _huge_ problems with the larger plot), the action was well laid out, and of course the production values were top notch. It’s almost painful to watch the CW’s DC shows compared to what Marvel is doing. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1152 "2021-03-05T23:27:49Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I know this is probably pointless to ask about a comic book plot, but would this even count as bearing children? Being all magicky and stuff. Does Wanda actually have kids in the comics or is it just something that will happen in the future? In the comics, and you’ll probably regret asking, It’s even more convoluted. Wanda used her “hex powers” of probability manipulation to enable her and Vision to have kids, and they retired from superheroing. I don’t remember if that was supposed to be nonsensical from the start or if it was a later writer who realized how nonsensical it was, but it was later revealed that she never had children - they were a magical illusion. The kids were also somehow fragments of the soul of an evil mage, Master Pandemonium. The kids were erased from reality. Later, it was revealed that Wanda never had probability control powers or magic, she directly controlled reality, and all of the nonsensical plots and character elements over the decades that various writers had ascribed to her were actually her manipulating memories, perceptions, and the very fabric of reality. She was eventually depowered, and all of her reality alterations were “fixed”. Then, through convolutions, her twin sons became retroactively real, as teenagers, and members of the Young Avengers. I think. At least that was the current re-retcon last time I read. Comic books are _weird_. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1153 "2021-03-05T23:38:06Z")
Yep, that was about as weird as I expected. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. Do you keep spreadsheets? The last time I read about comic book Wanda, she had the probability powers which were never explained very well to a casual X-Men readers. To me it seemed like magic no matter what they said. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1154 "2021-03-06T00:00:19Z")
Overall I liked the finale and really liked the whole season. I was also disappointed with the Evan Peters fake out, but I’ll survive. Maybe they’ll come up with a retcon that makes it fit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1155 "2021-03-06T00:03:59Z")
“Faux-ietro is just some random dude,” was, I think, literally the only prediction I got right, so I’m pretty chuffed about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1156 "2021-03-06T00:10:38Z")
I think the final episode didn’t work well as its own episode and I think if the final two were just one long episode, it would have stuck the landing for me. It wasn’t bad, but I wasn’t either craving MORE NOW or feeling “How satisfying that was all by itself.” It kind of fell in the middle. And because it’s clearly part of a bigger thing we can’t see yet, my feelings on it will surely change. Like if it really sets up Dr S 2 or Loki or whatever, my opinion will go up. And it’s not low now. If it has no ties to anything, and some of the things were just misdirects to mess with us, I’m ok with that. It was about the journey, not the destination. I thought most of the episodes were pretty good and if it’s an indicator of future Disney+ MCU stuff, I’m ok with that. I ended up not liking it as much as Jessica Jones S1, but I have a feeling I won’t like Falcon and Winter Solider as much as WV. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1157 "2021-03-06T00:43:27Z")
**…open spoilers for the finale.** . . . . . . I’ll share the official trailer 2 now (which I mentioned contained scenes from the final episode). The last moments of Vision and Wanda together is featured at the end of the trailer, and even the thumbnail is an obvious spoiler now 🙂 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/UBhlqe2OTt4/maxresdefault.jpg "Official Trailer 2 | WandaVision | Disney+") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBhlqe2OTt4) Overall I loved it. I’m watching a South Korean drama now called “Partners for Justice.” It features a grumpy forensic doctor named Baek Beom who whenever his colleagues start to speculate on “what the cause of death” is or “who the murderer was” he would respond with **“stop writing fiction.”** The evidence is what the evidence is. Everything else is fiction. So going into the last few episodes of WandaVision every time I started to “write my own story” on where I thought that things were going to go I said to myself “stop writing fiction.” The story is what the story is. And once I did that I was able to really start enjoying the show. My biggest disappointment was Monica’s story: but that really is my own problem, and not that of the show. It wasn’t WandaVision **and** Monica. She had her time to shine in the middle of the season, and it really is the episodic nature of television that makes it seem like she didn’t get to do much by the end, but taking the focus away from Wanda and Vision wouldn’t have helped. So I look forward to where they decide to use her in the future of the MCU. Its so crowded now that I’m hoping that Monica, Woo and Darcy get to cameo in everything else from now on. And speaking of Darcy: it seems obvious to me that she wasn’t actually on set for this, so I’m guessing that a lot of what we saw here was shot after the pandemic had made a bit of impact. Some of the scenes in the middle did feel a bit out-of-place (even Elizabeth Olsen’s acting seemed a bit oddly stilted in a couple of moments when she has been an acting powerhouse in almost every other frame of the show) and I think they were filmed after production restarted. But over all I loved it. The two big moments that got me: firstly the Rune reveal. I love a good call back/Chekov’s gun. Especially one where it takes me a few seconds to figure out what is happening. And secondly Monica talking about her mum with Wanda at the end. We lost mum in November and it still hurts, every single day. And I lost it at that moment. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1158 "2021-03-06T01:04:06Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > After all of that, Wanda just gets to walk away? That’s…no. She’s a super-villain. Fine, I get that she didn’t really realize how awful living in Fake Westview was for everyone, but that’s only because she thought she had _completely_ overwritten them instead of partially. She thought she was just a mass-murderer, not a mass torturer. She’s still _awful_ . …firstly: lets not pretend that there aren’t consequences in the MCU. The Sokovia Accords were a consequence of superhero actions and they’ve had a lasting impact even to this day. So does she get to walk away? Well she walks away **at the end of the episode.** But I wouldn’t take that as she is free of any consequence. > [@gdave](#): > > I _really_ think the creators screwed this up. Wanda’s _not_ a tragic hero. She’s _not_ a victim. She’s unbelievably selfish and self-centered. She’s a villain. I’m even more in favor of a drone strike to the head than I was before. She was a victim of the **Scarlet Witch**. An entity she didn’t even know existed until Agatha told her in episode eight. What exactly the Scarlet Witch is is something we don’t exactly know right now. The creators didn’t screw up here. I think the “Wanda is a villain” narrative is one that completely misses the point. It is **made clear** that Wanda doesn’t know exactly what she did or how much power she actually has. The people of Westview obviously would agree with you. As would millions of people tuning in to watch the story unfold on Fox News. But we get all of the additional context. And what I saw was the story of a wome **n who sacrificed everything to save the world:** **twice**. And in a moment of grief accidentally created a pocket-world that didn’t make any sense, that could have been a dream or her imagination or the real world so Wanda decided to play along with it because why-the-fuck not? And when the consequences of her actions were explicitly laid out to her she **chose** to try and rescue the citizens of Westview, even knowing the cost. She **chose** to rescue the soldiers. She **chose** to imprison Agatha, and not to kill her. She **chose** to walk away and not to fight. In my eyes she is a fucking hero. > [@gdave](#): > > And what, exactly, was Hayward arrested for? Obviously for a breach of the Accords. I even think this was explicitly spelt out in one of the earlier episodes. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1159 "2021-03-06T01:53:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …firstly: lets not pretend that there aren’t consequences in the MCU. The Sokovia Accords were a consequence of superhero actions and they’ve had a lasting impact even to this day. > > So does she get to walk away? Well she walks away **at the end of the episode.** But I wouldn’t take that as she is free of any consequence. Ok, so what consequences does she face? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > She was a victim of the **Scarlet Witch**. An entity she didn’t even know existed until Agatha told her in episode eight. What exactly the Scarlet Witch is is something we don’t exactly know right now. Wanda _is_ the Scarlet Witch. How is she the victim of the Scarlet Witch? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And in a moment of grief accidentally created a pocket-world that didn’t make any sense, that could have been a dream or her imagination or the real world so Wanda decided to play along with it because why-the-fuck not? Sure, she created the alternate reality accidentally, and she doesn’t realize until Agatha reveals it to her that the people of Westview have been consciously aware they’re being puppetted and suffering a living hell the entire time. But she’s _clearly_, _explicitly_ aware that she is puppetting real people, and she _doesn’t care_. The _only_ thing that matters to her is that she gets to live _her_ fantasy. It’s only when she’s _forced_ to confront the true horror of what she’s doing that she seems to have any second thoughts about what she’s doing. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And when the consequences of her actions were explicitly laid out to her she **chose** to try and rescue the citizens of Westview, even knowing the cost. She “rescued” them from _herself_. Agatha wasn’t actually threatening the citizens of Westview. She just wanted Wanda’s power. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > She **chose** to rescue the soldiers. That’s true. I guess that makes everything else she did ok. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > She **chose** to imprison Agatha, and not to kill her. Agatha herself is _horrified_ by the prospect that Wanda is going to over-write her with Agnes. She tells Wanda, “You’re cruel.” And she’s right. Wanda doesn’t have the excuse that she doesn’t understand how her personality over-writes work at that point. She’s _knowingly_ and _deliberately_ condemning Agatha to a living hell. In a lot of ways, it’s _worse_ than killing her. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > She **chose** to walk away and not to fight. Not fight _who_? She’s defeated Agatha. Hayward and SWORD are already defeated. Monica just wishes her luck. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > In my eyes she is a fucking hero. Look, I don’t want to get into a shouting match over a TV show. You think she’s a “fucking hero.” I think she’s a villain, but I’m not going to swear at you about it. I also don’t think I “missed the point.” I think we disagree. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Obviously for a breach of the Accords. I even think this was explicitly spelt out in one of the earlier episodes. If it was, I missed it. It wasn’t obvious to me. How did Hayward breach the Accords? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1160 "2021-03-06T02:00:00Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > She’s a super-villain > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > she is a fucking hero Personally I am very happy to have characters who have elements of both. They are much more fun and interesting. But I agree that they glossed over her villianous side, dismissed it with a handwave that she didn’t know she was doing it, or mean to. While clearly by the Halloween episode she knew, and Vision was clearly informing her of how the townsfolk were suffering. Hell even Vision’s let’s fight for “our home” bit, knowing that their home was based on the suffering of these innocents, is inconsistent with who this idealized Vision-version is. But again my biggest complaint is that this episode felt like checking off boxes. I expected to FEEL something as they brought her grief arc to the end of the show, as she dealt more with guilt of her past and of what she did. To cry. Instead I felt: well that was _okay_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1161 "2021-03-06T02:10:37Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Ok, so what consequences does she face? With her powers, what consequences can she face, really? The only way she goes to jail is if she volunteers to stay there. Which, maybe she should do, but it seems, I dunno, performative? If the only reason she’s there is because she wants to be there, is that actually a punishment? I think there’s something compelling in the idea of someone who realizes that they’ve done something terrible, but due to their nature, is beyond the effective censure of any other being. Her consequence is her own guilty conscience. Is that enough? No, but what could be? > [@gdave](#): > > How did Hayward breach the Accords? I don’t know that they’ve ever shared the specific wording of the Accords, but surely, “Deliberately creating new super-beings” has got to be on there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1162 "2021-03-06T02:19:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > With her powers, what consequences can she face, really? The only way she goes to jail is if she volunteers to stay there. Which, maybe she should do, but it seems, I dunno, performative? If the only reason she’s there is because she wants to be there, is that actually a punishment? I think there’s something compelling in the idea of someone who realizes that they’ve done something terrible, but due to their nature, is beyond the effective censure of any other being. Her consequence is her own guilty conscience. Is that enough? No, but what could be? Ok, but it’s not entirely clear to me that even that is happening. _After_ she realizes what she’s actually done to the citizens of Westview, and she supposedly realizes it’s wrong, she _deliberately_ does it to Agatha. The writers and Elizabeth Olsen had done a really good job with Wanda’s portrayal up until then. I just didn’t get a clear sense that she was truly remorseful. Heck, **Banquet\_Bear** is convinced she’s a _hero_, so I don’t think I’m the only one who didn’t read the ending that way. > [@Miller](#): > > I don’t know that they’ve ever shared the specific wording of the Accords, but surely, “Deliberately creating new super-beings” has got to be on there somewhere. That makes sense. Except that none of the characters knew that he’d done that until part-way through this episode, and Monica and Woo seemed convinced he’d done Something Bad several episodes ago, to the point where they committed a number of violent felonies to stop him. I suppose, it could just be that they thought he was _wrong_ about how to handle Wanda and the Westview anomaly, and fortunately for them, after they beat those Federal agents unconscious a couple of episodes ago, it turned out that Hayward _also_ had violated the Accords by rebuilding Vision. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1163 "2021-03-06T02:21:12Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > _After_ she realizes what she’s actually done to the citizens of Westview, and she supposedly realizes it’s wrong, she _deliberately_ does it to Agatha. Oh to be clear, when Agatha then calls her cruel she has a wry little smile. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1164 "2021-03-06T02:21:36Z")
I give the series a C. Such a cool premise. It could have been something different than just the standard superhero fare, something that dealt with the internal workings of grief on a nuanced level, and they went with two witches shooting magic balls at each other. It was well and fine for following the superhero script, but I wanted something more. Villains utterly lacking complexity. Vision(s) is a bright spot, but then I always loved his character in the MCU. This show is better than anything DC I’ve watched (which is not much), but it’s nowhere even close to the artful depictions of heroism and villainy in Daredevil, Jessica Jones or Luke Cage. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1165 "2021-03-06T02:30:46Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Ok, but it’s not entirely clear to me that even that is happening. _After_ she realizes what she’s actually done to the citizens of Westview, and she supposedly realizes it’s wrong, she _deliberately_ does it to Agatha. The writers and Elizabeth Olsen had done a really good job with Wanda’s portrayal up until then. I just didn’t get a clear sense that she was truly remorseful. Heck, **Banquet\_Bear** is convinced she’s a _hero_ , so I don’t think I’m the only one who didn’t read the ending that way. I thought the scene where Agatha wakes up the whole town sold Wanda’s guilt pretty well. I’m not as bothered with her putting Agatha back under the spell, since Agatha is far from an innocent party, and like Wanda, is someone who the normal justice system isn’t really built to handle. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1166 "2021-03-06T02:31:42Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh to be clear, when Agatha then calls her cruel she has a wry little smile. Ok, I’m re-watching the scene now. Wanda: I’ll give you the role you chose. The Nosy Neighbor. Agatha [looks momentarily confused, then scared]: No..please… Wanda [tauntingly]: I’m sorry. Agatha [viewed from behind, face not visible, angrily]: No you’re not, you’re cruel. Agatha [desperately]: Wait, you have no idea what you’ve unleashed. [cunningly, perhaps a hint of a wry smile]: You’re going to need me. Wanda [with a wry smile]: If I do, I know where to find you. Agatha [visibly and vocally desperate and afraid]: Wait! Wait - wait - wait… [Wanda touches her Agatha, and transforms her into Agnes. Agnes is wearing a tight, forced, perky smile, and says her lines…] ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1167 "2021-03-06T02:33:14Z")
[![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/bWohy11.jpeg "Who could have seen this coming?") ](https://imgur.com/bWohy11) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1168 "2021-03-06T02:39:46Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Ok, so what consequences does she face? …we will find out in the next installment of the MCU obviously. > [@gdave](#): > > Wanda _is_ the Scarlet Witch. How is she the victim of the Scarlet Witch? We don’t know exactly what the Scarlet Witch **is**. Its all speculation at the moment. Agatha gave us the briefest of backstories. But she is an unreliable narrator. > [@gdave](#): > > But she’s _clearly_ , _explicitly_ aware that she is puppetting real people, and she _doesn’t care_ . Of course she cares. That was made explicit in her conversation with fake Quicksilver when he reassured her she was doing the best that she could. > [@gdave](#): > > The _only_ thing that matters to her is that she gets to live _her_ fantasy. That wasn’t the only thing that mattered to her. For starters Vision didn’t deserve his fate. Vision was a good person. Didn’t he deserve a better chance at life? Didn’t he deserve a happy ending? What about the kids? I find myself doing this all the time with thinking about mum. The regrets. The things I would have done differently. I wouldn’t have bought mum back **for me**. I would have bought mum back **for her** , because **she deserved so much better** because she was the **best person in the world.** > [@gdave](#): > > It’s only when she’s _forced_ to confront the true horror of what she’s doing that she seems to have any second thoughts about what she’s doing. I mean: welcome to real-fucking-life. The entire series is a **metaphor of grief.** And sometimes in real life it isn’t until you are forced to confront the true horror of what it is you are doing to not only yourself but other people that you have second thoughts about what you are doing. Its like the metaphor is right there, waving to you, and you’ve completely missed it. Because you pretty much nailed it in your description of what **literally** happened, but you missed the **intent** of the writers here. Whether or not the writing was good is entirely subjective. But the point of the scene is not. > [@gdave](#): > > She “rescued” them from _herself_ . Wanda is dealing with not only some pretty major trauma but also the complex reality she is one of the most powerful people on the planet **and she didn’t even know it**. It isn’t clear that Wanda knew how much agency she had in the moment. It may as well have been a completely different person who did all the mind control things. > [@gdave](#): > > That’s true. I guess that makes everything else she did ok. That’s a strawman. > [@gdave](#): > > In a lot of ways, it’s _worse_ than killing her. Killing her would be objectively worse. Agatha is an extremely powerful being with declared evil intent. No human prison could hold her. Wanda buys time here: both making sure she doesn’t do anything evil and keeping her out of the hands of the authorities. I don’t actually agree with what she did. But from a story-telling POV it makes a certain amount of sense. > [@gdave](#): > > Not fight _who_ ? She’s defeated Agatha. Hayward and SWORD are already defeated. She would have been arrested and detained the moment the reinforcements arrived. > [@gdave](#): > > I think we disagree. Ya think? > [@gdave](#): > > If it was, I missed it. It wasn’t obvious to me. How did Hayward breach the Accords? The wiki isn’t official, and Agents of SHIELD seems to have been removed from official canon, but this was how I saw it. > [@](#): > > - [Jimmy Woo](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Jimmy_Woo) states that [Wanda Maximoff](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Wanda_Maximoff) violated Section 36B of the [Sokovia Accords](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Sokovia_Accords) when she resurrected [Vision](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Vision/Chaos_Magic_Recreation). The creation and activation of artificially intelligent androids being in violation of the Accords was first mentioned in the _[Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Agents_of_S.H.I.E.L.D.)_ episode _[The Laws of Inferno Dynamics](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/The_Laws_of_Inferno_Dynamics)_ . [https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/On\_a\_Very\_Special\_Episode](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/On_a_Very_Special_Episode)… The entire operation that Hayward was operating was very very bad. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1169 "2021-03-06T02:43:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I thought the scene where Agatha wakes up the whole town sold Wanda’s guilt pretty well. I also thought that was a good scene, well-written and well-played, as Wanda finally _begins_ to acknowledge the true horror of what she’s done. But then, at the end, she tells Monica she’s sorry, and acknowledges that Monica and the town must hate her, but Monica, speaking with what seems to be Narrative Authority, absolves her. “If I had your power, and I could bring back my mom, I would.” (Really? And would you mind-rape and enslave an entire town to do it?) I probably would have bought it if Wanda had actually explicitly acknowledged what she had done, something like “I was crazy with grief. I know that’s no excuse, but I just wasn’t thinking clearly until the very end. And now…now I can’t think of what I can do to make things better. I’ve done something truly _awful_ here, and now I don’t know what to do.” And if Monica had given some variation of Picard’s line to the Douwd, “I’m not qualified to be your judge, and we have no laws to fit the magnitude of your crime.” That’s not what we got, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094.md?page=59)