# Want epic fantasy, but... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247 "2005-11-09T18:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/1 "2005-11-09T18:20:29Z")
… I can’t handle realism. I can’t do the GRR Martin thing where my favorite characters get whacked when I’m least expecting it. I can handle some solemnity, but not that bleak realism. I need hope, daggone it! I’ve read and loved: Lloyd Alexander JRR Tolkein CS Lewis Chaz Brenchley Greg Keyes Garth Nix Barbara Hambly Patricia McKillip JK Rowling Alan Garner Angie Sage I started out liking but grew impatient with: Kate Elliott Ellen Kushner David and Leigh Eddings I am not a fan of: Mercedes Lackey Andre Norton Terry Brooks Brian Jacques Eoin Colfer I just picked a few that seemed to show where my tastes lie. So, can anyone recommend anything? I’m hoping for some fairly long series. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/2 "2005-11-09T18:30:05Z")
You might like Terry Pratchett’s more recent books. They’re comic, but increasingly have more intricate plots and characters. The Ankh-Morpork City Watch books are like murder mysteries with a fantasy element. Important characters rarely get killed and when they are, they get personally escorted to the afterlife by Death himself, who is actually a pretty nice guy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/3 "2005-11-09T18:32:51Z")
Yes, I’ve read Pratchett and like him a lot. So, excellent recommendation! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/4 "2005-11-09T18:50:57Z")
Steven Brust’s Vlad Taltos series. He also has a lighter series in the same “world,” written in a Victorian narrative style that starts with _Phoenix Guards_. ---
**Author:** ![Spudo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Spudo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spudo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/5 "2005-11-09T19:01:34Z")
Roger Zelazny’s First Chronicles of Amber are EXCELLENT. The Second Chronicles aren’t as good. There are 5 books in the First, they are: 1. Nine Princes in Amber 2. The Guns of Avalon 3. Sign of the Unicorn 4. The Hand of Oberon 5. The Courts of Chaos Zelazny’s writing style is outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/6 "2005-11-09T19:02:29Z")
Stephen R. Donaldson’s **The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever**. There are two trilogies, and now apparently a third one with the first book out. I just got _way_ into it. ---
**Author:** ![Spudo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Spudo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spudo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/7 "2005-11-09T19:07:53Z")
> [@mack](#): > > Stephen R. Donaldson’s **The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever**. > > There are two trilogies, and now apparently a third one with the first book out. I just got _way_ into it. I was going to mention the Covenant books too, but the OP said they didn’t want bleak, and it takes 6 books for the bleakness to wear off, so I dunno. If you want to read 5 depressing books with a protagonist you hate for a while, go for it. They’re really good though. Donaldson created a really great world, but they’re pretty depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/8 "2005-11-09T19:11:19Z")
> [@Spudo](#): > > Roger Zelazny’s First Chronicles of Amber are EXCELLENT. The Second Chronicles aren’t as good. There are 5 books in the First, they are: > > 1. Nine Princes in Amber > 2. The Guns of Avalon > 3. Sign of the Unicorn > 4. The Hand of Oberon > 5. The Courts of Chaos > > Zelazny’s writing style is outstanding. I agree, except to say that the second series isn’t good at all. I loves me some Zelazny, but the 2nd Amber series is his worst work. Happily, the 5 original books tell a story that can be read on its own. You might want to check out Gene Wolfe’s **Book of the New Sun** or **Litanny of the Long Sun**. They are complex, but can be read very satisfyingly just as fantasy/sci-fi if you don’t want to puzzle out some of the deeper meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/9 "2005-11-09T19:36:15Z")
Edward, Lord Dunsany was the inspiration for both JRR Tolkien **and** HP Lovecraft. No, I’m not nuts. Read his [In The Land Of Time](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/014243776X/qid=1131564893/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-7029091-0316108?v=glance&s=books). 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/10 "2005-11-09T19:44:35Z")
I’ve read some Zelazny, and wasn’t super excited. It’s been a while, though, so perhaps I should try again. I’ve read Donaldson. I don’t think I could handle something of that grimness again. I prefer his two-book series _Mordant’s Need_, since I liked the protagonists. I haven’t read Brust or Wolfe. I thought Wolfe was writing about a torturer? If so, I don’t know that I want to go there. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/11 "2005-11-09T19:54:52Z")
Nancy Springer has some excellent Fantasy books. Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Avalon series. Kenneth C Flint has some excellent Celtic Fantasies. Charles de Lint has some very good Modern Urban Fantsies, Especially Moonheart & Yarrow Poul Anderson & L Sprague DeCamp for some older but excellent Fantasy. Jim **Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor** I have read all the authors you mentioned and Lord Dunsany was not an inspiration for Tolkien. His primary inspirations were Old Legends. Finnish, Celtic, Norse and Germanic. That said Dunsany did write some good fantasies before Tolkien even got started. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/12 "2005-11-09T19:56:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I thought Wolfe was writing about a torturer? If so, I don’t know that I want to go there. **The Book of the New Sun** does have an apprentice torturer as the protagonist; but, there aren’t really any descriptions of torture, graphic or otherwise. On its simplest level, it’s the story of how he “backs into the throne” and becomes the king. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/13 "2005-11-09T20:00:49Z")
Juliett McKenna’s pretty decent, if you want something that’s not extremely ambitious, but very well done. I believe “Thief’s Gamble” is the first in the series. Definitely not dark, even though it isn’t really comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/14 "2005-11-09T20:03:01Z")
Try **Stephen Erickson’s** Malazan series starting with _Gardens of the Moon_ ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/15 "2005-11-09T20:04:20Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > **The Book of the New Sun** does have an apprentice torturer as the protagonist; but, there aren’t really any descriptions of torture, graphic or otherwise. On its simplest level, it’s the story of how he “backs into the throne” and becomes the king. Oooh, good to know. He’ll definitely go on the list, then. Thank you! I’ve seen his name around forever but never thought to ask someone for more information. **jrfranchi** , you’ve got a couple I’ve never heard of. Excellent! Nancy Springer and Kenneth C Flint are new names to me. I’ve liked a couple of DeLint, but one put me off and now I can’t remember the name of it. I thought Poul Anderson was an sf writer, so it tells you what I know! And I’ve definitely heard of L Sprague DeCamp but didn’t think of him. Yay. These OPs are hard because I don’t want to overwhelm people with data they aren’t interested in, and I also don’t want to waste their time suggesting authors I’ve already read. So let me add that I am very very very grateful to anyone who answers and if I say “I’ve read that” I am definitely still grateful. I read a lot. I should get out more. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/16 "2005-11-09T20:10:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > …snip… > **jrfranchi** , you’ve got a couple I’ve never heard of. Excellent! > > Nancy Springer and Kenneth C Flint are new names to me. > > I’ve liked a couple of DeLint, but one put me off and now I can’t remember the name of it. I thought Poul Anderson was an sf writer, so it tells you what I know! And I’ve definitely heard of L Sprague DeCamp but didn’t think of him. Yay. > …snip… Before Fanasty got popular with the LoTR and D&D, Anderson & DeCamp were 2 of the few successful Fantasy writers. Since the 60’s the numbers are large. Both wrote Sci-Fi and Fantasy. The Sci-Fi paid the bills better back then. I wish you lived closer, I could loan you everything I have suggested and more. Try the local Library. They should carry at least Anderson & DeCamp & Springer. By the way I am a Fantasy and Sci-Fi nut. Just in case you couldn’t guess. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/17 "2005-11-09T20:13:55Z")
I don’t see Le Guin mentioned; if you’ve not read her Earthsea books, you really oughtta. Same thing with Robin McKinley, especially _The Hero and the Crown_: it’s YA, and very good. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Spudo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Spudo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spudo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/18 "2005-11-09T20:24:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’ve read some Zelazny, and wasn’t super excited. It’s been a while, though, so perhaps I should try again. The first five Amber books have a different style of writing than I’ve found it some of this other stuff. The Amber books are… energetic. Another of his books that’s awesome, Lord of Light, has a similar style for some parts. Most of the book is told in the style of a sermon, that is, poetic and wordy, like Tolkein kind of, but that’s the point. Read it an you’ll see what I mean. The Amber books are just… cool. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/19 "2005-11-09T20:44:33Z")
A few more for your consideration: _The Worm Ouroboros_, by E. R. Eddision. I view this book as the prototype of all epic fantasy. J. R. R. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis, and T. H. White all adored this novel and the rest of Eddison’s work (which I haven’t yet read). It’s about heroes, villains, damsels, battles, swordfights, quests, chases, castles, magic, plots, betrayal, monsters, mountain-climbing, returning from the dead, seafaring, loyalty, poison, storms, hippogrifs, narrow escapes, desperation, leadership. All the good stuff, in other words. It is written in intentionally archaic language, so you may wish to have a dictionary handy if you don’t have an annotated edition. It’s out of print, unfortunately, but your library may have a copy. _Memory, Sorrow and Thorn_, by Tad Williams. A huge epic fantasy series that basically revived the genre in the late 80’s. Very influential for recent fantasy writers. Notable for an enormous cast of characters, surprising plot twists and touches of humor. The three books are _The Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_ and _To Green Angel Tower_; the last one is split into two volumes. _Princess of Ayodhya_, by Ashok K. Banker. This is the first is a projected seven-volume series based on the ancient Hindu epic called _The Ramayana_. It’s about the war between the human race and an invading army of demons from the underworld. The scope is tremendous, everything happens on a big scale, and the author knows lots of detail about life in ancient India, which gives the book some extra zing and sets it apart from standard fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/20 "2005-11-09T21:00:37Z")
Woo hoo! I haven’t read: McKenna Erickson Eddison or Banker (that sounds wonderful) I’ve read _Tailchaser’s Song_? by Tad Williams and liked it. McKinley is brilliant. But, I hated LeGuin’s Earthsea books. Nothing would compel me to pick them up again. That’s one author where I stray significantly from the norm. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247.md?page=2)