# Want epic fantasy, but... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247 "2005-11-09T18:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/41 "2005-11-10T00:30:03Z")
_The Neverending Story_ by Michael Ende is good. (Oh, on preview I see **Lissla** has already mentioned him.) You might want to look into Diana Wynne Jones. She’s written a number of good fantasies of various sorts. You might want to start with her Chronicles of Chrestomanci or with _Dark Lord of Derkholm_ (which is both an epic fantasy and a lighthearted parody of epic fantasy). ---
**Author:** ![marque\_elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@marque\_elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marque_elf)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/42 "2005-11-10T00:44:44Z")
For humorous, but hardly epic fantasy, I suggest the M.Y.T.H. books by Robert Asprin. Lots of bad puns, a fairy godfather who wears pin striped suits and is named Don Bruce, a dragon named Gleep…what’s not to like? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/43 "2005-11-10T00:49:42Z")
Lord Dunsany of the fantastical, “The King of Elf Land’s Daughter”, and Robert E. Howard of Conan the Barbarian fame. ---
**Author:** ![MadPansy64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@MadPansy64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadPansy64)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/44 "2005-11-10T00:53:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > … I can’t handle realism. I can’t do the GRR Martin thing where my favorite characters get whacked when I’m least expecting it. I can handle some solemnity, but not that bleak realism. I need hope, daggone it! > I’ve read and loved: > > Lloyd Alexander > JRR Tolkein > CS Lewis > Chaz Brenchley > Greg Keyes > Garth Nix > Barbara Hambly > Patricia McKillip > JK Rowling > Alan Garner > Angie Sage > I started out liking but grew impatient with: > > Kate Elliott > Ellen Kushner > David and Leigh Eddings > I am not a fan of: > > Mercedes Lackey > Andre Norton > Terry Brooks > Brian Jacques > Eoin Colfer > I just picked a few that seemed to show where my tastes lie. So, can anyone recommend anything? I’m hoping for some fairly long series. Elizabeth Moon (might be out of print) Paksenarrion series Patricia Wrede – everything she has ever written Anne McCaffrey – especially the Pern stuff, but most of hers (avoid the co-author titles) and don’t listen to the “she’s SF” people. Be careful of Charles DeLint. I love his work, but he is **waaay** too in touch with less-than-pleasant realities to fit your request. The urban fantasy series is good, but rather very terribly “bleak.” Try Moonheart, to start. It’s more gentle. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/45 "2005-11-10T00:58:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Lord Dunsany of the fantastical, “The King of Elf Land’s Daughter”, and Robert E. Howard of Conan the Barbarian fame. I mentioned Dunsany. [The Bridge Of Birds](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345321383/103-3127644-2464617?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance) by Barry Hughart. A very elegant fantasy set in China, puncuated with refined wit. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/46 "2005-11-10T01:45:32Z")
Why do I always end up seeing these threads after everybody else? Most of what I would recommend has already been mentioned. Here are some other thoughts: [ul] [li]Anything that was printed in the Ballantine Adult Fantasy series[/li][li]_The Biography of Dom Manuel of Poictesme_ by James Branch Cabell (it’s a series). Start with _Jurgen_, then _Figures of Earth_, then _The Silver Stallion_. Then decide if you want to continue.[/li][li]A bunch of stuff in the Fantasy Masterworks collection is worth checking out. Try the Vance “Dying Earth” volume and the stuff by Dunsany, de Camp & Pratt, Hope Mirrlees, Clark Ashton Smith, and Robert E. Howard.[/li][li]Dunsany also did a couple of more medieval-ish romance-ish volumes (_Don Rodriguez: Chronicles of Shadow Valley_ and _The Charwoman’s Shadow_)[/li][li]It’s not epic fantasy, but the Fafhrd & Grey Mouser stuff by Fritz Leiber is well worth checking out.[/li][li]Pratt also did a volume called _The Well of the Unicorn_.[/li][li]If you’re looking for moderately gritty “doorstop” fantasy, David Drake (the military SF guy) did a fantasy series starting with _The Lord of the Isles_.[/li][li]It’s not a pseudo-medieval fantasy, and it’s almost impossible to read, but _The Night Land_ is one of the more remarkable works of fiction in the English language.[/li][li]William Morris (yes, the chair guy) is arguably the guy who invented the modern school of epic heroic fantasy. Try starting with _The Wood Beyond the World_ and going on from there. Keep a dictionary handy.[/li][li]Wolfe did a remix of themes from Norse mythology in his books _The Knight_ and _The Wizard_.[/li][li]It’s not exactly epic fantasy, but the _Thraxas_ books by Martin Scott are decent light reading.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/47 "2005-11-10T01:47:59Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > It’s not a pseudo-medieval fantasy, and it’s almost impossible to read, but _The Night Land_ is one of the more remarkable works of fiction in the English language. :smack: By William Hope Hodgson, of course. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/48 "2005-11-10T02:07:55Z")
Hey! I have read the _The Incompleat Enchanter_, or at least one book? All I can remember is the hero riding in the back of a cart. My memory isn’t good. I have read: Gaiman Diana Wynne Jones (who is fabulous) Asprin Piers Anthony Bramah’s Carrado stories (at least some) But haven’t read: Moon Hughart (though I’ve intended to) Vance Ende Stasheff Flewelling Or pretty much anyone **Hunter Hawk** mentioned. Thank you thank you! I love this thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/49 "2005-11-10T02:24:41Z")
[Hijack] We have a lot a of Fantasy & Sci-Fi readers here, is it worth while to try and set up a book exchange? This would be like combining Ben Franklin’s original library and the US Post Service he helped to set up. I don’t know the exact mechanics, but is it worth pursuing? [/Hijack] Jim ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/50 "2005-11-10T02:43:23Z")
The Castle Perilous series by John DeChancie is both funny and epic. It’s set is a magical castle with 144,000 gates to different universes, and full of people that have wandered in - _all_ of whom develop magical powers. It gets quite cosmic at times, including the destruction of an entire universe. The _Spellsong Cycle_ from L.E. Modesitt Jr is also good, but it _might_ be a little too gritty. Bad things happen, but the good side wins. Make that “Shreds and burns the enemy till nothings left”. It’s set on a world named Erde, where song and music is sorcery; if you sing a song about a bridge and are good enough, one will form. A sorceress ( i.e. singer ) tries to summon a more powerful sorceress, and gets Assistant Professor of Music Anna from our world. She was thinking “I’d like to be _anywhere_ but Ames, Iowa !”, and the sorcery latched on. She’s now stuck on a world rather hostile to women, in a land surrounded by enemies. On the other hand, thanks to her training and knowledge she’s the most powerful sorceress alive, possibly ever. The result is several books of fanatics getting fried, crushed, drowned and vaporized. That’s the gritty part; but she _does_ win, and does make Erde a better place. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/51 "2005-11-10T02:43:46Z")
More plugs for Diane Duane and Gene Wolfe. The former is a light read. Not so the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/52 "2005-11-10T03:12:10Z")
Have you read _Perdido Street Station_? People seem to love it or hate it; I think it’s phenomenally good. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/53 "2005-11-10T05:06:10Z")
I’ve only read Modesitt’s _Recluce_ series, and a lot of people die in it. I think I read it primarily because of the food and woodworking details. I like novels about artisans when the writer clearly knows his/her stuff. I guess it counts as fantasy. It’s decent reading. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/54 "2005-11-10T12:48:52Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Have you read _Perdido Street Station_? People seem to love it or hate it; I think it’s phenomenally good. > > Daniel Drove me insane. I can see how people love it–the setting was fabulous, but I just couldn’t get into the characters. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/55 "2005-11-10T13:40:10Z")
I see Lissla beat me to the _Recluce_ series. I would consider it fairly epic, and while some main characters die, it’s not until the end of the series really. I’ll third or fourth _Memmory, Sorrow, and Thorn_ by Tad Williams. Great series. For epic, I cannot believe nobody has mentioned _The Wheel of Time_ series yet. Although I think I remember seeing your name in the other threads about it, so perhaps you just didn’t mention it. At 12 books, it’ll keep you reading almost long enough for the next one to maybe be published. The _MYTH_ books are also a fun read, although not exactly epic. _The Black Magician Trilogy_ by Trudi Canavan was fairly entertaining. Not epic, but enough to sink your teeth into, with a follow up series in the works now I think. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/56 "2005-11-10T13:56:14Z")
I haven’t read: DeChancie Modesitt (though fans should check out a forum [here](http://www.iblistforums.com/viewforum.php?f=52&sid=d80a499a905bb87b3cec569fc743be54), where Modesitt moderates) Canavan or Mieville I will read Jordan someday, but I’ve decided not to start it until it’s finished. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/57 "2005-11-10T14:43:50Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I know! Piers Anthony!!! > > Hey, put down that bat… OW!! OWWW!!! STOPPITTTT, I was _kidding_, ok? > > [sub]jeez, that still hurts[/sub] There’s probably a date which exists such that you read his books written before but not after. Glen Cook is one of my favorite fantasy authors. His Garrett books are just awesome. He’s also written other stuff like a series about The Black Company that looks like it might fall in the epic category. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/58 "2005-11-10T14:56:49Z")
> [@Fern Forest](#): > > There’s probably a date which exists such that you read his books written before but not after. > Glen Cook is one of my favorite fantasy authors. His Garrett books are just awesome. He’s also written other stuff like a series about The Black Company that looks like it might fall in the epic category. I really like The Black Company - well the first three. I actually had a lot of trouble getting into the first one, but found I really enjoyed the first three once I did. I say give it a try. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/59 "2005-11-10T16:13:12Z")
> [@Fern Forest](#): > > There’s probably a date which exists such that you read his books written before but not after. > Glen Cook is one of my favorite fantasy authors. His Garrett books are just awesome. He’s also written other stuff like a series about The Black Company that looks like it might fall in the epic category. I don’t know, at least for the OP. Most of his books are very gritty indeed; the Garret ones are some of the cheeriest, and they aren’t all that cheerful. Yes, he’s _good_, but usually grim. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247/60 "2005-11-10T16:14:43Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I don’t know, at least for the OP. Most of his books are very gritty indeed; the Garret ones are some of the cheeriest, and they aren’t all that cheerful. Yes, he’s _good_, but usually grim. I have to agree, Cook is a little Dark. I don’t think it fits **jsgoddess** OP either. Jim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-epic-fantasy-but/330247.md?page=4)