This is where I disagree. I’ve never belonged to a union. I do my job exceptionally well. I believe that were I in a union it would lead to a cut in my pay. My employer being forced to pay some people who do not meet my performance level the same as I am being paid, to me is essentially taking away what they might otherwise be willing to pay me. I’ll bargain for my own pay, thank you.
I work for local government - my salary is part of a system that is only negotiable collectively - everybody on the same band as me gets the same salary, with very limited spinal point progression within bands (for four years, then it stops at top of band)
When I worked for the government I was specifically prohibited from joining a union while other government employees were not so prohibited.
Since I worked for the military, I certainly did not feel that I should belong to a union. No problem there. But the question of public employment and work stoppages is one that has to be handled by the political process, and in general I think that public employees should face tougher strike regulations than those imposed on private employees.
This isn’t in general a controversial position, and is indeed the law in most of the country to differing degrees, depending on the nature of the public work.
Yeah, if it were something like “I would like to join a union, but I don’t want to have to go to campaign rallies for political candidates favored by union leaders,” I’d have a different view of that argument. But workers standing in solidarity with each other is a pretty fundamental part of union participation.
What benefits would you get by joining the union, other than the good feeling of supporting the “cause”?
For my part, I feel that unions have (at least in the UK) for the most part now turned into platforms for self-important arseholes to gain as much publicity as possible for their “cause”, with the union’s bosses’ interests being at the forefront of their priorities, with those of their workers (and anything else) a rather distant second. I also disagree with strikes as a concept. So I would require some pretty large, tangible benefits to be in place before I would even consider joining a union. But then I work in an industry which is almost entirely non-unionised (financial services), for an employer that I trust. I can just about see how I might think differently if I worked in the public sector, but I doubt it.
UNITE has a large presence in the financial sector (mostly in retail banking and the insurance companies), and several of the larger individual companies have TUC-affiliated staff unions (HBOS for one). As far as I can tell the main benefit (as most of these organizations don’t have collective pay bargaining) is in professional representation for redundancy/disciplinary matters.
If you join the union, and the union calls for a strike which you feel is wrong (generally, or under that circumstance), then usually the union will hold a vote among its members to see how many are in favour of the strike. I don’t know what country you’re in, but in Germany for example, a certain percentage of members must agree for a strike to be legal. It also doesn’t make a lot of sense for the union to go against the will of its members; after all, the members elect the union leaders and representatives, so if the leaders go against the will of the majority, they can be voted out.
If 99% of the members are for the strike, and only you against, you might ask yourself why, and check their arguments.
Or, if you are so convinced that strikes are bad (I don’t understand that reasoning myself), then get elected to leadership in the union, and you can effect negotiations and agreements without a strike. (Again, don’t know where you are, but in Germany, negotiations have to come first. A warning strike of a few hours to show resolve is allowed, but a strike proper starts after thorough negotiations have failed, the demands of both sides are publically know, the vote has been taken. In many cases, it’s the employers who don’t bother to put any reasonable demands on the table in the first round, or walk out after 15 minutes, believing that only a few people will go on strike for justified demands, and it’s easier to ride that out and then take away another round of negative increase from the workers.
Since it appears that you’re not forced to join the union to maintain your job, can’t you just join the union, and then resign from the union if they call a strike vote? That would be a legally-protected option in the USA.
A chance to contribute my view to the pot and be formally involved in any negotiations, representation in the event of grievances, better Or at least more) information on what’s going on in any process undergoing negotiation - stuff like that.
I think we probably agree on most of this. I don’t consider the available unions at my workplace to be paragons of competence, integrity or honesty - what I’m missing out on, for the most part, is the ability to be involved.
That’s certainly an option (in fact, I did exactly this, many years ago, in a very different workplace), but doesn’t seem conceptually very different from staying in the union and refusing to conform - and afterwards, I’d be right back here again.
Do you also think that resigning from your job because you feel that your employer mistreats you is unethical?
Well, while a member, you’d be paying dues (or in the USA, full dues rather than the agency fee), so that’d be a positive contribution to offset your resignation during strikes. But… what is the industry? Are strikes really so common?
You do realize that the only real power a union has is the threat of work stoppage. Without that, a union is rather pointless.
I’ve no great wish to debate my position at length in this thread, but no. It’s not that walking out shouldn’t be an option (and I acknowledged this in my OP), but rather, In my experience, unions have had a bit of a hair trigger for calling a strike - and it’s this that I’m uncomfortable taking part in.
They’re not especially common, but not unheard of. Also, we’re facing a period in which we will experience quite a lot of change, which I expect will provoke protest in some cases.
I don’t deny it’s one of their tools. I disagree that it’s the only real power, and I believe it is often used inappropriately.
But please don’t imagine (everyone, please) that I haven’t given this considerable thought, over a long period of time. My opinion has been shaped by a quarter of a century of experience in quite a diverse set of workplaces.
If a strike is called against your employer and you continue to work there, I don’t think that not belonging to the union will save you from possible “derision” or “retaliation”. I don’t think they are going to say “Mangetout’s good. He’s not in the union”. I think you will be viewed as a strikebreaker either way.
By joining the union you are strengthening their hand, thus making a strike less likely. The more people that support the union, the more likely it is that management will negotiate in good faith. As long as you don’t advertise the fact that you won’t participate in a strike and are willing to accept the consequences (which, as I pointed out above, are likely to be the same whether you join or not), I think that joining the union is the better choice.
This depends partly on the union, and also upon the industry.Very few unions will have the hair trigger strikes, such action is nearly always a last resort in a long and protracted set of negotiations or proposed changes.
The reason that members may see them as coming up quick is because most of them are either not informed, or they do not care to keep themselves up to date with the various industrial relations machinations.
It takes months of work before the union will decide wheter a strike call is warranted, and then it will take some time to capmaign on their position, with leaflets, workplace meetings, emails and the like.
Trouble is that most members still pay little attention, and often the first time they actually pay any real attention is when the ballot papers arrive, which members frequently do not return, and the strike date looms ever closer - the first real awareness of many members might well be final notification, and it might even be via the media - the long drawn out process is there, its that many members don’t notice it because they think all the noise is not serious, or mere politicking.
Activists vary, some do get around and make sure their members are fully aware, but all too often they face a tidal wave of apathy and resignation, or worse still - nothing. People join unions for many reasons, but all too many join a union as if it were a product to be bought from the shelf and used when they decide they wish to avail themselves of the services it offers.
I am a PCS activist, and I have taken part in a few strikes, these were pretty inneffective, I knew they would be because the actions were not targeted well, and I have gone into various meetings to vote for and against various proposals, but in the end a collective vote is an agreement to abide by the decision of the majority, just because you don’t always get what you want, its not reason to take the ball home, few of us, if any get all that we want and few of us win even the majority of the time, thats how it is.
Management also don’t always get what they want either, one has to be mature about these things, and also realistic. Join a union by all means, but if you are called out on strike it will not be for weeks on end, and ultimately strikes tend to happend because there really is nowhere else for the workforce to go - they are very much a backs to the wall thing.
Union members are not strike hapy folk, for the most part going on strike not only costs wages, it also causes problems for your clientele and you may well feel you have let them down, there is a personal pride thing here. Unions are well aware of employee commtitments to their role and ethics, they will not call you out on a whim.
Look, when you are in the trenches, you can just up and walk away when the going gets tough but all the others around you will have balanced up their ethics and responsibilites too, and they may well resent you for letting them down in such a crucial situation.
If you expect to flat out never walk out, then don’t bother joining, if you can imagine situations when you might feel compelled to do so, then remember this, other members are already in that position.
What other tools are there? Any that have any power without the threat of a strike?
By contract, in many cases the threat of a strike is only available when the contract expires. All of the power in the meantime is the power to embroil the company in endless grievances. That’s not a minor power.