# Want to play Miss Manners? Who is in the wrong here? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755 "2004-07-25T02:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/121 "2004-07-28T16:05:33Z")
I have a friend who is a vegetarian, based on her belief that she does not wish to bring harm to anything “with a mother or a face.” I respect her belief, and although I am not vegetarian, find nothing rediculous about her position. However, she sincerely believes that wearing leather is OK because “they were dead anyway, and the hide is just leftover.” My point is that while leather is a necessary byproduct of the slaughtering process, it is disengenuous to state that the sale of hides does not support in any way the cattle industry. I feel similarly about the man who was offended that his guest ordered meat. By patronizing the restaurant at all he was supporting financially and and with implied consent the eating of meat. I understand that religions contain inconsistencies; are \*all \* inconsistencies thus ecxused? If the consumption of meat is so abhorrent how can he knowingly place himself anywher near it? And **Lefty** , I understand that social apologies smooth the social process, and there are plenty of times when I have apologized because it would have been disruptive to the general atmosphere, but I have to agree with those who claim that an insincere apology is worse than none at all. I prefer plain speaking, and prefer to interact with others who also prefer it. (Perhaps this is why I spend so much time alone 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/122 "2004-07-28T17:10:10Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Whatever, **Jodi**. That’s a load more self-righteousness than I’m willing to deal with. So whatever. > > Daniel Actually, that was harsher than I should’ve been: I’ve had a bad day, and I overreacted to your snarkiness. My sincere apologies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/123 "2004-07-28T17:51:58Z")
Very clever, LHD! 🙂 In response to a request for a clearly undeserved apology, you say something that actually merits a brief social apology and then you apologize for that – thereby neatly side-stepping the issue of whether you actually _would_ apologize for something that didn’t really merit it. A nice feint; I admire it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/124 "2004-07-28T19:22:09Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Very clever, LHD! 🙂 In response to a request for a clearly undeserved apology, you say something that actually merits a brief social apology and then you apologize for that – thereby neatly side-stepping the issue of whether you actually _would_ apologize for something that didn’t really merit it. A nice feint; I admire it. 🙂 I realize it may have looked like that, but I can only ask you to trust me that it was sincerely offered and unplanned. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/125 "2004-07-28T19:25:14Z")
And to be clear, the difference between your example and the Jain’s case was that, when you said you were offended, you were being insincere. (Because you didn’t expect me to believe you, I can’t quite say you were lying). That you were using insincerity as a means to castigate me for destroying the value of insincere apologies was, I trust you understand, a bit vexing :). Had you really been hurt as a result of what I’d said, that’d be a different kettle of fish; I try not to cause pain, even inadvertantly. But you can’t conjure hurt out of snarkiness or insincerity. That’s not how it works. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/126 "2004-07-28T19:57:59Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > That you were using insincerity as a means to castigate me for destroying the value of insincere apologies was, I trust you understand, a bit vexing :). :smack: Oy vey. “insincere apologies” should read “sincere apologies,” else it doesn’t make any sense. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/127 "2005-05-13T16:37:33Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > …snip… > When I spoke with my friend the next day, she admitted her husband had been offended by my husband’s meal choice. As he sees it, my husband had ‘maneuvered’ him into violating his ethical code by causing him to pay for the consumption of animal flesh, despite my husband knowing that her husband finds the eating of meat morally abhorrent. > > …snip… > > Who is right and wrong here, and how can we proceed to make everyone feel placated? Your husband is in the right. The other folks owe him and you an apology for being somewhat jerkish, IMNSHO. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/128 "2005-05-13T17:40:06Z")
Wow - zombie thread! ---
**Author:** ![Feydeau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Feydeau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feydeau)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/129 "2005-05-13T18:06:58Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Wow - zombie thread! And the _irritating_ thing is I read almost all of the first page before I realized it. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/130 "2005-05-13T19:00:53Z")
Me too. I thought it was an interesting discussion, until I realized it was OVER. Whatcha doing, **Clothahump**? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/131 "2005-05-13T19:14:58Z")
On the other hand, this gives me the opportunity to ask, “So what’s the end of the story, **StarvingButStrong**? Did anyone appologize?” ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755/132 "2005-05-13T22:56:01Z")
Zombie thread. Link to old threads for reference, but don’t bump 'em. TVeblen Pit mod [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-to-play-miss-manners-who-is-in-the-wrong-here/256755.md?page=6)