# Want your Kid To Be "ARMYSTRONG"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867 "2007-08-16T22:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/21 "2007-08-17T02:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] No. He said kids who _mostly_ took shop classes. Y’know, the sort who went real light on the science and math. Did you do that? No? Then siddown and shaddap. [/QUOTE] This coming from the King of “I must win every GQ thread because I can Google faster than anyone else”, and gets his balls busted half the time because his Google-fu doesn’t match real life experience from people who actually work in the trades. You go dude. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/22 "2007-08-17T02:55:44Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The kind of kid who took shop classes? In my school, shop class was required. (At least in one of the grades. 8th maybe?) When I was in 8th grade (c. 1979), we had a choice between Home Ec or “Industrial Arts” (i.e. Shop). I took Home Ec. It was where all the chicks were. It was a no brainer. I was kind of amazed that only two or three of the brighter males ever seemed to figure that out every year. [QUOTE=Klaatu] Yeah, 'luci apparently thinks people who took shop and entered the trades are lower class morons. [/quote] When did he say that? There was a suggestion that shop class was associated with the blue collar class in his post, and the accompanying observation that the blue collar kids were the ones who were targeted to be bullet sponges in Nam, but I don’t see that as an insult to tradespeople or blue collar workers or any suggestion at all that they’re “morons.” You’re waaaay, overreacting here, man. The worst **'lucy** is guilty of is intimating that only poor kids took shop. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/23 "2007-08-17T02:55:45Z")
Whatever. That’s what he said; you wanna get your panties in a twist over it, it’s no skin off my nose. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/24 "2007-08-17T03:00:42Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I’m in a good mood, you can look for free. [/QUOTE] That made me laugh out loud! Good shot! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/25 "2007-08-17T03:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] This coming from the King of “I must win every GQ thread because I can Google faster than anyone else”, and gets his balls busted half the time because his Google-fu doesn’t match real life experience from people who actually work in the trades. You go dude. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] **QED** still made a valid point about **lucy’s** phrasing, regardless of your _ad hominems_. Chill out, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/26 "2007-08-17T03:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] **QED** still made a valid point about **lucy’s** phrasing, regardless of your _ad hominems_. Chill out, dude. [/QUOTE] Thank you. But, let him vent. It helps him feel big and important. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/27 "2007-08-17T03:07:24Z")
Dio, when you say somebody other than you is overreacting, I crack up. You are funny, dude. But I can leave this. The comment pissed me off, but it doesn’t last, unlike the attitude of some posters here. I am the number one proponent of the “It’s just a message board” thing. I don’t give a flying rat turd, it’s entertainment. I thought 'luci would have some better shit to give me though… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/28 "2007-08-17T03:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] That made me laugh out loud! Good shot! 😉 [/QUOTE] Laugh at my jokes, and all is forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/29 "2007-08-17T03:18:37Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Thank you. But, let him vent. It helps him feel big and important. [/QUOTE] No, thank you. Really. When I grow up I want to be just like you, the uninformed but I will look it up dude. I am not important, nor do I strive to be. You, on the other hand seem to thrive on seeming important here, whether you are right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/30 "2007-08-17T03:23:06Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] …you wanna get your panties in a twist over it, it’s no skin off my nose. [/QUOTE] Are the SDMB Straight Line of the Year nominations still open? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/31 "2007-08-17T03:24:21Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Are the SDMB Straight Line of the Year nominations still open? [/QUOTE] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/32 "2007-08-17T03:25:46Z")
So the OP tosses up an incoherent, weak OP and the denizens of the board, friendly souls that they are, fill in the venom for him. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/33 "2007-08-17T03:28:20Z")
From [here](http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/2006militarypaytables.html), using base pay alone, enlisted personnel don’t get to $36K until they’re well into the E-6/E-7+ grades. Monthly base pay for E-1 through E-4, the most common enlisted field grades typically nets base pay below 2K/month. Once you start adding in the supplementals(signing bonus, re-up bonus, combat supplement), it could well bonk up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/34 "2007-08-17T03:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Are the SDMB Straight Line of the Year nominations still open? [/QUOTE] That’s been the Straight Line of the Year nomination for the last seven years. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/35 "2007-08-17T07:03:55Z")
[QUOTE=Incensed] Um…surely you meant “a **viable** option for those whose other option is humping 40-60 hours a week at near-minimum wage.” [/QUOTE] Um, no. You really don’t know what you’re talking about here. Target demographic are what recriters called ‘uppers.’ Upper 2/3 - Kids who can easily go to college. In fact, colleges, not the other services, are the recruiters #1 foe. None of the services want drones - they want smart, motivated, gung-ho go-getters. _Those_ kind of people only get stuck humping long hours at minimum wage through bad luck. All the services, the Army most certainly included, want people who can handle tecnology, can _think_ under pressure, and can carry out orders with a minimum of supersion. Your ignorance is perhaps understandible, seeing as you obviously don’t care to bother to acquaint yourself on the subject, but that doesn’t make your statement any more excusable. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/36 "2007-08-17T09:25:46Z")
I kinda wish I’d gone to a school that had shop classes, instead of music and drama. ---
**Author:** ![Incensed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Incensed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incensed)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/37 "2007-08-17T10:57:43Z")
[QUOTE=Tranquilis] Um, no. You really don’t know what you’re talking about here. Target demographic are what recriters called ‘uppers.’ Upper 2/3 - Kids who can easily go to college. In fact, colleges, not the other services, are the recruiters #1 foe. [/Quote] Target demographic does not equal the demographic that actually fucking enlists. I was addressing the plight of the latter. I know what the Army wants; based upon the difficulty they have had filling quotas (not to mention the rule changes they have implemented in trying to do so), I have a good idea what the Army is getting. Go ahead and tell me that people who grew up in poverty aren’t disproportionately represented in the armed forces. > [@](#): > > Your ignorance is perhaps understandible, seeing as you obviously don’t care to bother to acquaint yourself on the subject, but that doesn’t make your statement any more excusable. Yeah I don’t know what a recruit can expect to earn in pay or benefits; my ignorance is vast. But my OP was a somewhat pedantic response to another poster who said joining up was a “great option” for a lot of people. I honestly don’t know what planet you have to be from to say risking your life **for anything** represents a “great option”. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/38 "2007-08-17T11:35:15Z")
[QUOTE=Incensed] I honestly don’t know what planet you have to be from to say risking your life **for anything** represents a “great option”. [/QUOTE] So firemen, policemen, those people who fly weather planes into hurricanes, etc. are just a bunch of dumbasses? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/39 "2007-08-17T11:38:47Z")
[QUOTE=Incensed] Target demographic does not equal the demographic that actually fucking enlists. [/QUOTE] Actually, it does. The Army operates the same as the other services in this regard: If you don’t meet the cutoff, you don’t go, pending a waiver. Waivers are NOT the standard mode of operation. The _vast_ majority the soldiers _are_ the target demographic. Those whom are not are very close to it, and are in some other way sufficiently impressive to generate a waiver. You still don’t know what you’re talking about. You need to go out and actually _meet_ a fair representation of these soldiers, _then_ you’ll have some concept. As for coming from poor backgrounds, yeah, that’s quite common, but starting poor != doomed to be a minimum wage slave anymore than starting middle class = non-minimum wage slave. And those whom start low on the totempole still don’t need condenscation from their self-appointed guardians. I rather suspect the majority of them would have some rather rude things to say about your image of them as helpless dupes of the system. Your elitist crap is rather revolting. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867/40 "2007-08-17T11:39:10Z")
What kills me are the ten minute National Guard commercials they show before movies these days. The spots talk about the history of the Guard (and how it pre-dates the US, which is sort of fudging things a bit, if you think about it) and how you’ll be doing things like disaster relief, search and rescue, etc., but let’s face it, you’re probably going to wind up in Iraq at some point. Guard units stationed in the US are also running short of gear, having been ordered to leave it in Iraq. I suppose that as far as shitty jobs go, right now, trying to develop an ad campaign for the armed forces has got to be near the top. The military _desperately_ needs people because of what’s going on in Iraq, but because of what’s going on in Iraq, few people want to join. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/want-your-kid-to-be-armystrong/415867.md?page=3)