# Wanted - Obscure Military Trivia! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 8, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467 "2010-10-08T09:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/21 "2010-10-09T10:14:13Z")
The P-51 Mustang had a long career in the US Armed Forces. It wasn’t withdrawn from American service until 1957 (the last such serving Mustang was an F-51D in the West Virginia Air National Guard). It wasn’t entirely removed from military service in other countries until 1984, with the Dominican Air Force. The Mustang was later developed into various civilian designs, including a plane called the Cavalier Mustang, which featured leather interior, updated avionics, and in some versions, a second seat for a passenger. The Cavalier Mustang was itself later developed into a number of militarized variants, including the Cavalier F-51D and the Cavalier Mustang II, for foreign export. A final version was developed, at first called the “Turbo Mustang III” and eventually being renamed the Enforcer. This design was initially put together by Cavalier, but later the project was sold to Piper Aircraft, who produced two new airframes with some improvements called the PA-48 Enforcer, and demonstrated for the US Air Force as a Counter-Insurgency aircraft. This last model was built in _1984_, the same year the last flying F-51D Mustang had been taken out of military service in the Dominican Republic. And of course, this isn’t mentioning the famously weird F-82 Twin Mustang, which was essentially two lightweight F-51H Mustangs that were attached at the wings. This plane was designed as a long-range escort fighter and a night fighter, and saw service in the Korean War, gaining the first three Allied air-to-air kills of the war. Even more obscure than that? The Germans were also developing a number of twin-body fighter planes not entirely unlike the F-82 Twin Mustang, including a twin-body variant of the Bf-109. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/22 "2010-10-09T13:03:17Z")
> [@ramel](#): > > The standard US submarine torpedo during WW2 was the Mk 14. It was so advanced they only did a single live test firing, to prevent anyone finding out about it. It passed the single test. > > When WW2 started, a number of flaws gradually appeared in the Mk 14, which hadn’t appeared in the single torpedo fired during peace time. > > Flaw 1. The torpedo’s depth setting equipment was flawed, and the torpedo ran too deep as a result. > > Flaw 2. The magnetic exploder, which was designed to cause the torpedo to detonate under ships to break their backs, was faulty. It rarely caused the torpedo to detonate under the target, and frequently caused the torpedo to detonate early due variations in the natural magnetic field. > > Flaw 3. A submarine crippled a Japanese ship. The sub surfaced and fired a single torpedo to finish the ship off. The torpedo hit the ship and failed to detonate. The captain ordered maintenance on the next torpedo before it was fired. But when fired, again the torpedo failed to explode. The captain then fired torpedo after torpedo into the crippled Japanese ship, performing maintenance on every one before firing. He fired almost every torpedo he had on his submarine and every single one failed to detonate. He fled when a Japanese destroyer turned up. It turned out there was a design flaw in the Mk 14’s detonator, that meant the torpedo would almost be guaranteed to fail if it hit the target at right-angles. It worked more reliably if it hit at glancing angles. > > Flaw 4. The Mk 14 had the occasional habit of running in a big circle and coming back to the sub that fired it. The USS Tullibee sank it’s self in this way. > > It wasn’t till late 1943 that the US navy admitted to and fixed the last of these flaws. As an addenda, the Mk XIV problem was partly fixed by using scrap metal from the Japanese planes that were shot down at Pearl Harbor. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/23 "2010-10-09T13:09:29Z")
> [@detop](#): > > > [@ramel](#): > > > > The standard US submarine torpedo during WW2 was the Mk 14. It was so advanced they only did a single live test firing, to prevent anyone finding out about it. It passed the single test. > > > > When WW2 started, a number of flaws gradually appeared in the Mk 14, which hadn’t appeared in the single torpedo fired during peace time. > > > > Flaw 1. The torpedo’s depth setting equipment was flawed, and the torpedo ran too deep as a result. > > > > Flaw 2. The magnetic exploder, which was designed to cause the torpedo to detonate under ships to break their backs, was faulty. It rarely caused the torpedo to detonate under the target, and frequently caused the torpedo to detonate early due variations in the natural magnetic field. > > > > Flaw 3. A submarine crippled a Japanese ship. The sub surfaced and fired a single torpedo to finish the ship off. The torpedo hit the ship and failed to detonate. The captain ordered maintenance on the next torpedo before it was fired. But when fired, again the torpedo failed to explode. The captain then fired torpedo after torpedo into the crippled Japanese ship, performing maintenance on every one before firing. He fired almost every torpedo he had on his submarine and every single one failed to detonate. He fled when a Japanese destroyer turned up. It turned out there was a design flaw in the Mk 14’s detonator, that meant the torpedo would almost be guaranteed to fail if it hit the target at right-angles. It worked more reliably if it hit at glancing angles. > > > > Flaw 4. The Mk 14 had the occasional habit of running in a big circle and coming back to the sub that fired it. The USS Tullibee sank it’s self in this way. > > > > It wasn’t till late 1943 that the US navy admitted to and fixed the last of these flaws. > > As an addenda, the Mk XIV problem was partly fixed by using scrap metal from the Japanese planes that were shot down at Pearl Harbor. What? That makes no sense to me. Can you provide a cite? ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/24 "2010-10-09T13:30:30Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What? That makes no sense to me. Can you provide a cite? The way I understood it, is that all the stockpiles of torpedo imploders in Hawaii were fixed on location, using material available locally and as for a cite, sorry, I read that something like at least 10 years ago (if not longer) and I don’t recall exactly were I read it (I think it was in a _Strategy & Tactics_ issue or maybe a Jim Dunnigan book). Did you know that [this](http://www.northernsun.com/images/imagelarge/Peace-Sign-Button-(0685).jpg) was the symbol of the 3[sup]rd[/sup] Panzer Division in 1940 ? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/25 "2010-10-09T13:49:13Z")
Talking about the B-17, after the war, the USAF reorganized their B-29s but junked their -17s. Some continued as testbeds and whatnot, but they never fought again after WW2. The B-29 was hot stuff in 1945, but by 1950 it was reduced to a night bomber since it was dead meat to MiGs over Korea. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/26 "2010-10-09T14:14:29Z")
The first Soviet strategic nuclear bomber, the Tu-4 “Bull”, was a copy of the B-29, based on three American ones that had been interned and seized after landing there. The Soviet Air Force kept it in service until the mid-1960’s. Airliner and cargo versions never reached mass production. China began and eventually cancelled a program to make a turboprop version. The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were made partly with uranium produced by Germany for its own abortive effort, and taken from U-134 when it was captured on its way to Japan to help its own atomic bomb program. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/27 "2010-10-09T14:21:10Z")
^ Unlikely for the Nagasaki bomb was a plutonium bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/28 "2010-10-09T14:45:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > ^ > Unlikely for the Nagasaki bomb was a plutonium bomb. Plutonium is made out of uranium. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/29 "2010-10-09T15:07:20Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I don’t think the Army has any straight “leg” units left anymore, and haven’t for some time; the modern battlefield is way too “mobile” for leg infantry to hoof it around and keep up. The Army actually has MORE straight leg units than it has in the past. For example, 1st COSCOM lost its Airborne status as of about 6 years ago, and 44th MEDCOM, IIRC about 3 years ago. We still have many paratroopers, but there are not as many units that require Soldiers to be on active jump status. SSG (P) Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/30 "2010-10-09T15:32:08Z")
I forgot to add my fact. It has been estimated that over 80% of the Soldiers engaged in combat in the US Civil War never fired their musket. See LT Col Grossman in _On Killing_. SSG § Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/31 "2010-10-09T16:03:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The first Soviet strategic nuclear bomber, the Tu-4 “Bull”, was a copy of the B-29, based on three American ones that had been interned and seized after landing there. The Soviet Air Force kept it in service until the mid-1960’s. Airliner and cargo versions never reached mass production. China began and eventually cancelled a program to make a turboprop version. > > The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were made partly with uranium produced by Germany for its own abortive effort, and taken from U-134 when it was captured on its way to Japan to help its own atomic bomb program. If you want to read about how the Soviets made their version of the B-29, I would suggest you read Victor Suvorov’s _The Liberators_ for an hilarious account of the program. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/32 "2010-10-09T16:08:08Z")
> [@detop](#): > > …If you want to read about how the Soviets made their version of the B-29, I would suggest you read Victor Suvorov’s _The Liberators_ for an hilarious account of the program. This sounds interesting. I rarely hear the term “hilarious” applied to Stalinist Russia. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/33 "2010-10-09T16:14:00Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > > Inca armies took a royal mummy to all their big campaigns, they always split into three groups and each group had dual command. > > The Incas considered their deceased kings to be still-living beings (gods, if you will). They retained all their possessions and staff after death, and were carried into battle as leaders. They were consulted by religious leaders for advice on many issues, and their word from beyond the grave was considered law. “Hey granda, should I flank them?” ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/34 "2010-10-09T16:34:33Z")
> [@detop](#): > > > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > > The first Soviet strategic nuclear bomber, the Tu-4 “Bull”, was a copy of the B-29, based on three American ones that had been interned and seized after landing there. The Soviet Air Force kept it in service until the mid-1960’s. Airliner and cargo versions never reached mass production. China began and eventually cancelled a program to make a turboprop version. > > > > The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were made partly with uranium produced by Germany for its own abortive effort, and taken from U-134 when it was captured on its way to Japan to help its own atomic bomb program. > > If you want to read about how the Soviets made their version of the B-29, I would suggest you read Victor Suvorov’s _The Liberators_ for an hilarious account of the program. Can you provide a few tidbits, please? Sounds interesting. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/35 "2010-10-09T17:03:06Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@detop](#): > > > > …If you want to read about how the Soviets made their version of the B-29, I would suggest you read Victor Suvorov’s _The Liberators_ for an hilarious account of the program. > > This sounds interesting. I rarely hear the term “hilarious” applied to Stalinist Russia. 😛 Just read the account. The engineers were told to reproduce the plane **exactly**. In other words, every little production defects on the plane were copied (erroneous rivet holes, communication tunnel painted two different colors [in the original, they probably ran out of one and continued with another], they even had to **ask** Djugachvili if the dials should be in metric or imperial units and if the markings should be a white or red star :eek::D). ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/36 "2010-10-09T17:17:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > An obscure but important battle was the **Battle of Tit** in 1902. Fought at the small village of Tit in the Hoggar Mountains of north Africa, the French defeated the fearsome Kel Ahaggar Touareg tribes who had terrorized the Sahara for several hundred years. After the defeat, the French were able to open trade routes and expand their empire. And let us not forget the stiff Pole resistance during the [Battle of Kock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kock_%281939%29). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/37 "2010-10-09T18:16:00Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > [@Chefguy](#): > > > > An obscure but important battle was the **Battle of Tit** in 1902. Fought at the small village of Tit in the Hoggar Mountains of north Africa, the French defeated the fearsome Kel Ahaggar Touareg tribes who had terrorized the Sahara for several hundred years. After the defeat, the French were able to open trade routes and expand their empire. > > And let us not forget the stiff Pole resistance during the [Battle of Kock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kock_%281939%29). Damn you for your one-upmanship! Why, I oughta moidalize ya. Oh, wait. . . ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/38 "2010-10-09T18:17:16Z")
> [@detop](#): > > Did you know that [this](http://www.northernsun.com/images/imagelarge/Peace-Sign-Button-(0685).jpg) was the symbol of the 3[sup]rd[/sup] Panzer Division in 1940 ? And did you know that [this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/USA_-_45_INF_DIV_Swastika.svg) was the insignia for the 45th Infantry Division until the 1930s? (Actually, according to the discussion for the Wikipedia entry, it might have been a mirrored version of that). In any case, they changed their insignia to the [Thunderbird](http://tipsfromgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/thunderbird.jpg). Er, sorry, I meant the [Thunderbird.](http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/photo/lc/image/alpha/n05638.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/39 "2010-10-09T18:31:01Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Talking about the B-17, after the war, the USAF reorganized their B-29s but junked their -17s. Some continued as testbeds and whatnot, but they never fought again after WW2. > > The B-29 was hot stuff in 1945, but by 1950 it was reduced to a night bomber since it was dead meat to MiGs over Korea. Also supplemented/replaced by the B-50A, which was essentially the B-29 with the bugs worked out (bigger tail, more powerful engines, stronger and longer fuselage, but basically the same design). The B-50 would also see some service as an air-refueling tanker (much like the B-29), and would also serve as the basis for another tanker, the wide-body KC-97. Speaking of the KC-97, its max cruising speed was slower than the B-47 Stratojet’s stall speed. The only way the two planes could meet up to refuel in mid air was in a long shallow dive. The KC-97 would run its engines at max power, and the B-47 would idle its engines and apply the air brakes. They would link up and exchange fuel in the dive, disconnect, pull up, and repeat until enough fuel had been passed. This issue eventually led to the introduction of the KC-135 Stratotanker (based on the Boeing 367, the same aircraft that served as the basis for the 707 airliner). The KC-135 is still in service today, the newest example having been built in 1965. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/40 "2010-10-09T19:39:32Z")
> [@detop](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > This sounds interesting. I rarely hear the term “hilarious” applied to Stalinist Russia. 😛 > > Just read the account. The engineers were told to reproduce the plane **exactly**. In other words, every little production defects on the plane were copied (erroneous rivet holes, communication tunnel painted two different colors [in the original, they probably ran out of one and continued with another], they even had to **ask** Djugachvili if the dials should be in metric or imperial units and if the markings should be a white or red star :eek::D). They also reproduced patches that fixed damaged spots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467.md?page=3)