# Wanted - Obscure Military Trivia! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 8, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467 "2010-10-08T09:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/41 "2010-10-09T21:41:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The first Soviet strategic nuclear bomber, the Tu-4 “Bull”, was a copy of the B-29, based on three American ones that had been interned and seized after landing there. The Soviet Air Force kept it in service until the mid-1960’s. Airliner and cargo versions never reached mass production. China began and eventually cancelled a program to make a turboprop version. As I recall, the first nuclear weapons air-dropped in testing by Russia and China were both delivered by Tu-4s. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/42 "2010-10-09T21:58:33Z")
A goat named Billy was the mascot of the 1st Battalion of the British Army’s Royal Welsh Regiment from 2001 to 2009. Billy held the honorary rank of lance corporal. But in 2006 he was unruly at a parade and attempted to head-butt another marcher. As a result, Billy was brought up on disciplinary charges and demoted to the rank of fusilier for three months. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/43 "2010-10-09T22:37:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A goat named Billy was the mascot of the 1st Battalion of the British Army’s Royal Welsh Regiment from 2001 to 2009. Billy held the honorary rank of lance corporal. But in 2006 he was unruly at a parade and attempted to head-butt another marcher. As a result, Billy was brought up on disciplinary charges and demoted to the rank of fusilier for three months. Similarly, meet Sir Nils Olav, Colonel-in-Chief of the Kings’s Guard of King Harald V of Norway. A penguin who lives in Edinburgh Zoo. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Edinburgh, East and Fife | Military penguin becomes...](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7562773.stm)** > > A penguin who was made Colonel-in-Chief of the Norwegian King's Guard is honoured again by the army regiment. This is one of the best videos made since the discovery of light. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/44 "2010-10-09T22:42:11Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@detop](#): > > > > …If you want to read about how the Soviets made their version of the B-29, I would suggest you read Victor Suvorov’s _The Liberators_ for an hilarious account of the program. > > This sounds interesting. I rarely hear the term “hilarious” applied to Stalinist Russia. 😛 Not even examples where the customs are the opposite of what you would expect in America? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/45 "2010-10-09T22:49:53Z")
Wojtek - the soldier bear. This is an incredible story. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mIg1pZgMGRk/hqdefault.jpg "Wojtek the soldier bear") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIg1pZgMGRk) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/46 "2010-10-09T22:52:41Z")
In the Aleutian Campaign, the Seabees at Dutch Harbor built an operating machine gun using, among other things, parts from old washing machines. They actually used it in defense of air attacks. Also, the only first and possibly only intact Japanese Zero was shot down in the Aleutians, giving the Allies a good look at how the thing was built. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/47 "2010-10-10T00:28:29Z")
Military “how the Hell did I get here?” trivia A tribe in rural Egypt is actually [ethnic Hungarians,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarab_people) descendants of an Ottoman Empire military levy. France and Great Britian had both lent money to both Egypt and Mexico. When these nations defaulted, France tried to take over Mexico. Britian later took over Egypt. France had accepted partial payment from Egypt in the form of [slave solders](http://www.egy.com/historica/94-06-25.shtml), actually Sudanese; believed to be better-suited to the Mexican climate. France eventually had to leave Mexico, and the Sudanese solders went home with valuable training, which they [used against the British.](http://www.uncp.edu/home/rwb/gordon_khartoum.jpg) Also in Egypt, pulling the city’s taxis, were the descendants of Australian Waler horses, lefts by the Anzac in WWI What mules there may be today in India could be the descendants of those imported by the British Indian army, bred in Kansas & Missouri. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/48 "2010-10-10T01:27:12Z")
More WWII airmen died over the skies of Europe and North Africa than Navy/Marine personell in the entire war across all theaters. I heard somewhere that more died in one month than Marines in the entire Pacific theater but I can’t find a cite for that. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/49 "2010-10-10T01:31:05Z")
Napoleon’s invasion of Egypt was done in hopes of linking-up with the forces of Tipu Sultan, who was making a credible bid to defeat the British in India. Both Napoleon and Tipu lost their last battles to the same officer, Arthur Wellesley the Duke of Wellington. Tipu’s great-grandson later met the love of his life in, of all places, New Mexico; their daughter, [**Noor Inayat Khan**](http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/timewatch/images/gallery_spy2.jpg) was later executed by the Nazis while spying in France for the British. Born five years later than Noor Inayat Kahn’s mother and in the next state of Arizona was WWI aviator [**Frank Luke**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luke), dubbed “The Arizona Balloon Buster.” Though not as glamorous as dogfighting (or, as air-to-air combat actually is in most cases: shooting an unaware enemy pilot in the back) taking out observation balloons was even more dangerous, since they were heavily guarded by antiaircraft batteries and smaller balloons dragging cables. Arizona honored Luke’s memory by naming Luke Air Force Base after him. During the Cold War, Luke AFB was used to train German fighter pilots. To anyone besides a stereotypical German, this would cause embarassment. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/50 "2010-10-10T03:37:35Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > I am pretty damn sure all those bomb stats are bullshit, including the RAF WWII states. Their bombing wasn’t nearly that good. > > > > For another “fact” that I heard but don’t know whether it is true. Gulf War I was the first war ever where the US had no infantry – that is, no soldiers who went into and out of battle on foot. All the infantry were “mechanized infantry” who entered and left battle in personnel carrying vehicles. > > Well, there were Airborne and Airmobile units. > > I don’t think the Army has any straight “leg” units left anymore, and haven’t for some time; the modern battlefield is way too “mobile” for leg infantry to hoof it around and keep up. 10th Mountain? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/51 "2010-10-10T04:23:50Z")
Less famous than the B-17 Flying Fortress and the B-24 Liberator heavy bombers are the escort fighters based on them, the YB-40 and XB-41. These were essentially heavy bombers given armor plating, additional defensive weopons (for example, the YB-40 Flying Fortress featured a twin-50 chin turret, an extra dorsal turret, twin-machine gun mounts in the waist, you get the idea). Extra ammo was kept in the bomb bay. The general idea was for these planes to accompany friendly bombers into enemy territory, and lay down heavy defensive fire. The plan didn’t take off (pun intended) because it turned out that the massive escort fighters couldn’t keep up with the bombers they were escorting once it became time to go home, although some of the design features, such as staggered waist gun positions and the twin-50 machine gun turret in the chin of the YB-40, became standard on later models of the bombers they were based on. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/52 "2010-10-10T04:26:11Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > 10th Mountain? They have the [10th Mountain Division Combat Aviation Brigade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Aviation_Brigade,_10th_Mountain_Division_(United_States)) to provide organic (10th Division) transport. So to my way of thinking they don’t “walk” into battle. Of course, being ex-Armor, it could be I have only a fuzzy notion of true “leg” infantry, having dealt only with Cav Scouts and Mech Infantry during my time in green. So I guess if anyone could qualify as “leg” infantry as I understand it, it might be the 10th. But I’d think a true “leg” outfit would have no organic (inherent to the Brigade or Division) transport, be it wheeled, tracked, or rotored; it would come from “outside,” such as Corps Support Elements, like a “the 9999th Corps Support Transport Battalion” (providing support to units like the 9876th Toilet Paper Disbursment Detachment, 1234th Postal Detachments, and the 4077th MASH). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/53 "2010-10-10T06:07:42Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > More WWII airmen died over the skies of Europe and North Africa than Navy/Marine personell in the entire war across all theaters. > > I heard somewhere that more died in one month than Marines in the entire Pacific theater but I can’t find a cite for that. The first is arguably true. The second is not. Total US Army Air Force deaths in WWII were 88,119. Total combined US Navy/Marine Corps deaths for the war were 87,125. (These totals include people who were missing in action and never found.) So leaving aside the fact that some USAAF died on the ground and some died outside of Europe and North Africa, the USAAF did have more deaths during the entire course of the war. But clearly not in a single month. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/54 "2010-10-10T06:09:09Z")
When I was in basics, about a hundred years ago, we were told that the origins of the salute are thought to have come from one of two places. Either the raising of the visors of knights to show that the other was a friend, not an enemy. OR, (my personal favorite) that it was a gesture used while the military paraded past the queen and it was supposed to signify to the queen (as they raised their hands above their right eye) “I have to shield my eyes from your blinding beauty”. HEee. Probably the knight one is the real reason, but I love the other one. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/55 "2010-10-10T06:22:47Z")
UK Bomber Command losses were around 55,000 in WWII, a 40-odd percent death rate. For a US scale, multiply the absolute loss by five. I’m glad I was born in the '60s, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/56 "2010-10-10T06:54:32Z")
In a book I read 10-15 years ago: In WWI, a bit less than 60% of combat casualties came from heavy weapons, a bit less than 40% from small arms, 2% from grenades and less than 1% from hand to hand combat. The US military is currently considering the 6.5mm Grendel as a replacement caliber, finding the 5.56mm lacking. The 6.5mm Arisaka from the late 19th century has the same diameter while being somewhat heavier and slower than the 6.5 Grendel, which means that a bullet the same weight as a 6.5 Grendel would have roughly the same velocity. Semi-auto fire is usually preferred by Western militaries when using assault rifles. A semi-auto long gun (Browning Auto-5) was available in the late 19th century. In other words, the optimal trade off upgrade the US military is considering at the beginning of the 21st century could have been reached in the late 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/57 "2010-10-10T08:24:28Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > The US military is currently considering the 6.5mm Grendel as a replacement caliber, finding the 5.56mm lacking. The 6.5mm Arisaka from the late 19th century has the same diameter while being somewhat heavier and slower than the 6.5 Grendel, which means that a bullet the same weight as a 6.5 Grendel would have roughly the same velocity. > > Semi-auto fire is usually preferred by Western militaries when using assault rifles. > A semi-auto long gun (Browning Auto-5) was available in the late 19th century. > > In other words, the optimal trade off upgrade the US military is considering at the beginning of the 21st century could have been reached in the late 19th century. Not necessarily, and not quite. The velocity of the bullet may depend on the propellant used, and how much of it. If modern weapons can use more propelling force than the ones from 100 years ago, then the Grendel may be considerably faster. (I don’t know the details though, what you said could still be correct, just not necessarily for the reasons you gave). Also, the Browning Auto-5 appears to have been a shotgun, though I don’t see any reason why the recoil-operated function might not have worked with a rifle (for comparison though, the M-16 is gas-operated, not recoil-operated, not sure how different this functionally is from how the Auto-5 worked) Until the 1960s, the US Navy/Marines and the Air Force/Army used two different systems of identifying their aircraft, oftentimes resulting in multiple classifications for essentially the exact same airplane. Sometimes the Navy system would result in multiple classifications for basically the same airframe, depending on which company had built them. For instance, the TBF and TBM Avengers, or the F4U, FG, and F3A Corsairs. To further confuse things, the Army Air Forces and the Air Force used similar but slightly different systems. The big difference was that some of the prefix letters got changed around, so the P-51 Mustang became the F-51 Mustang, and so on. In the 1960s, a law was passed requiring that all the aircraft used by the armed forces use one uniform designation system, so many of the planes in service ended up getting redesignated. Some of the Navy planes ended up keeping very similar designation (the F4H Phantom II became the F-4 Phantom), while the newer Air Force fighter jets, their numberings now up in the low 100’s, ended up resetting to much lower numbers (for instance, the F-110 Spectre became the F-4 Phantom II) Presumably, all this was done because the folks in the government were tired of trying to figure out what plane anybody was talking about when all these different designations were being thrown around for identical planes. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/58 "2010-10-10T09:43:02Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > > > The US military is currently considering the 6.5mm Grendel as a replacement caliber, finding the 5.56mm lacking. The 6.5mm Arisaka from the late 19th century has the same diameter while being somewhat heavier and slower than the 6.5 Grendel, which means that a bullet the same weight as a 6.5 Grendel would have roughly the same velocity. > > > > Semi-auto fire is usually preferred by Western militaries when using assault rifles. > > A semi-auto long gun (Browning Auto-5) was available in the late 19th century. > > > > In other words, the optimal trade off upgrade the US military is considering at the beginning of the 21st century could have been reached in the late 19th century. > > Not necessarily, and not quite. The velocity of the bullet may depend on the propellant used, and how much of it. If modern weapons can use more propelling force than the ones from 100 years ago, then the Grendel may be considerably faster. (I don’t know the details though, what you said could still be correct, just not necessarily for the reasons you gave). Also, I doubt that the Arisaka cartridge is the same size and weight as the Grendel - a key factor in assault rifle design. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/59 "2010-10-10T14:47:15Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > 10th Mountain? > > They have the [10th Mountain Division Combat Aviation Brigade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Aviation_Brigade,_10th_Mountain_Division_(United_States)) to provide organic (10th Division) transport. So to my way of thinking they don’t “walk” into battle. > > Of course, being ex-Armor, it could be I have only a fuzzy notion of true “leg” infantry, having dealt only with Cav Scouts and Mech Infantry during my time in green. So I guess if anyone could qualify as “leg” infantry as I understand it, it might be the 10th. > > But I’d think a true “leg” outfit would have no organic (inherent to the Brigade or Division) transport, be it wheeled, tracked, or rotored; it would come from “outside,” such as Corps Support Elements, like a “the 9999th Corps Support Transport Battalion” (providing support to units like the 9876th Toilet Paper Disbursment Detachment, 1234th Postal Detachments, and the 4077th MASH). Every division has aviation assests, heavy or light. But the only true air mobile division is the 101st. Parts of the 10th Mountain may ride in helicopters at times but that is not their primary mission. They are light infantry. There also used to be the 7th ID (light) but it was deactivated. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467/60 "2010-10-10T15:09:30Z")
The US made a copy of the German V-1 “Doodlebug” buzz bomb for use in softening Japan for the invasion. The first shipment of JB-1 “Loons”, or “Yankee Doodles”, made by Republic with engines made by Ford, and including some captured German parts, was already en route to its planned launch sites in the western Pacific when the war ended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wanted-obscure-military-trivia/556467.md?page=4)