# War between the FBI and Trump hypothetical **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398 "2017-05-11T21:58:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/1 "2017-05-11T21:58:07Z")
Vox has [a piece](https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/11/15624544/fbi-trump-comey-war)out on how the FBI, if pissed off enough, could wage a war against Trump. > [@](#): > > The point, in short, is that Trump is vulnerable and the FBI is extremely powerful. Starting a fight with the bureau is inadvisable for every president, and especially so for a president with a history of legal problems. But by firing Comey, Trump has invited war. Leaks, working with Congress (including Congressional leaks), investigations into non-Russian doings, etc. My question for you: Assume for the moment the FBI could do these things and would do those things. Do you think they should do those things? For me, while I’m tempted, I’d ultimately be uncomfortable cheering on these sorts of actions as a vendetta or out of pique. I recognize that telling the difference between pique and legitimate fear of executive overreach is difficult, but this would make me uneasy. You? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/2 "2017-05-11T22:03:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > For me, while I’m tempted, I’d ultimately be uncomfortable cheering on these sorts of actions as a vendetta or out of pique. I recognize that telling the difference between pique and legitimate fear of executive overreach is difficult, but this would make me uneasy. You? I agree with you. But… I’ll say the same thing I said about Trump when he tried to dis the CIA during the transition period: Don’t be an idiot-- you DO NOT want these guys as enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/3 "2017-05-11T22:26:34Z")
> [@](#): > > For me, while I’m tempted, I’d ultimately be uncomfortable cheering on these sorts of actions as a vendetta or out of pique. I recognize that telling the difference between pique and legitimate fear of executive overreach is difficult, but this would make me uneasy. You? I agree to being uncomfortable with it. Even though that’s exactly what got Mark Felt (Deep Throat) talking during Watergate as I understand it - he was peeved that he got passed over as Director of the FBI. He was crooked, too. ---
**Author:** ![Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backwater_Under_Duck)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/4 "2017-05-12T01:08:22Z")
They don’t have to do anything on purpose to expand any, so-called, war with their boss. All they have to do is be professional and do their duty under the laws of the United States and the purpose of their mission, and everything will be okay. Which is to say they will nail his ass. Only vigorous obstruction of justice by any new political appointee will turn this to Trump’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/5 "2017-05-12T02:27:09Z")
They should not ‘make it personal’, IMHO, it’s not good for the country in the long run. I might have trouble generating much outrage, though. Side question, who actually decides how the FBI prioritizes it’s resources? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/6 "2017-05-12T11:32:03Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I agree to being uncomfortable with it. Even though that’s exactly what got Mark Felt (Deep Throat) talking during Watergate as I understand it - he was peeved that he got passed over as Director of the FBI. He was crooked, too. Op-ed in New York Times just recently raises just this question. [In Firing Comey, Did Trump Unleash the Next Deep Throat?](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/opinion/comey-trump-deep-throat.html?ref=opinion&_r=0), Beverly Gage, New York Times, May 10, 2017. > [@](#): > > The F.B.I.’s Watergate investigation was not yet underway. But Nixon already believed that control of the F.B.I. would be critical for his political future. He hoped especially that a newly cooperative bureau would help to dam the fast-flowing stream of leaks from the executive branch. Instead, he inspired one of the great leakers of all time: the F.B.I. associate director W. Mark Felt. > > As the historian Max Holland has shown, Felt hoped to become director himself and took Nixon’s decision as a personal affront. Like many career F.B.I. men, Felt also believed in the value of bureau autonomy and resented the president’s attempt to manipulate an independent bureaucracy. In June 1972, when Washington police arrested five men connected to the Nixon campaign during a break-in at Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate office complex, Felt recognized an opportunity. As the journalist Bob Woodward admitted more than a decade ago, Felt turned on Nixon in the summer of 1972, feeding information to The Washington Post as the legendary informer Deep Throat. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/7 "2017-05-12T11:36:24Z")
Felt was Nixon’s personal assessment for who Deep Throat was…and he still testified at his trial and got him acquitted. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/8 "2017-05-12T11:52:01Z")
I posited in another thread that the recent FBI raid in Virginia wasn’t about Russia per se, but rather the FBI giving notice that it would not sit idly by and be either overruled by or coerced into doing the bidding of the current administration. I would imagine the FBI occasionally gets wind of a number of potential cases which would be politically embarrassing to one party or another but which get shelved because in the grand scheme of things they’re not material enough to be worth the headache of fighting political and PR battles. I would also imagine that these investigations could be pulled out and dusted off if the “headache” is happening anyway. This is pure speculation on my part, I hasten to add, but were it so, the purpose would be not to influence Trump directly but to send a message to the GOP party members that they needed to rein in Trump or face a whole raft of similar raids and investigations. And it would be exactly the sort of thing that could motivate Congressional Republicans to consider a special prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/9 "2017-05-12T12:16:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Felt was Nixon’s personal assessment for who Deep Throat was…and he still testified at his trial and got him acquitted. Felt was convicted at trial and pardoned by Reagan during his appeal. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/10 "2017-05-12T17:38:22Z")
Seeing how smart Trump seems to think he is picking a fight with the FBI, CIA or the mainstream media seems extremely foolhardy. I don’t see what he has to gain but I do see how this can all work against him. I think Trump is delusional in thinking that he can get away with anything. He’s been able to do that his entire life. But as long as we have WH leaks he runs the risk of eventually being exposed for the huckster he is. I’m certain someone in the FBI is taking notes and connecting the dots with the Russians and sooner or later it will all come crashing down around him. As the CEO of a large company he can do whatever he wants and nobody is going to care. As POTUS people are watching his every move. I hope the FBI doesn’t overstep it’s bounds, but I don’t think they have to. Collect the facts and prosecute everyone around him who breaks the law. That’s their job. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/11 "2017-05-12T17:47:05Z")
People used to similarly wonder whether the military would resist orders from Bill Clinton or Obama. AFAIK, no such resistance ever materialized. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/12 "2017-05-12T18:13:00Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > People used to similarly wonder whether the military would resist orders from Bill Clinton or Obama. AFAIK, no such resistance ever materialized. Why would they resist? What would be the reason? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/13 "2017-05-12T19:16:37Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Why would they resist? What would be the reason? Draft dodger, anti-military. Kenya. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/14 "2017-05-12T20:04:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Draft dodger, anti-military. Kenya. Yes, but we were talking about Clinton, not trump. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/15 "2017-05-12T21:55:40Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Leaks, working with Congress (including Congressional leaks), investigations into non-Russian doings, etc. > > My question for you: Assume for the moment the FBI could do these things and would do those things. Do you think they should do those things? Some of them. I’m uncomfortable with this being about a feud, but the FBI should investigate the President or his associates if they have reason to believe a crime has been committed. For example, there was a civil case against Trump University that he settled, but there are criminal fraud statutes. Did he break them? I don’t know, but it wouldn’t be unreasonable for the FBI to investigate that. Leaks are kind of a reality of politics. I think that some are justified and some are not. Leaking something that you think the public has a right to know seems more likely to be justified than leaking something because it will damage someone politically but is not really important. “Working with Congress” seems pretty benign. I think all parts of the federal government should be as open with Congress as is reasonable. I think there’s a big difference between this and the military refusing orders from a draft dodger. The President gets to give orders to the military, and generally, they don’t get to refuse. But the FBI investigates crimes, and while the President might be immune from prosecution while he’s in office, he certainly shouldn’t be above investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/16 "2017-05-13T14:03:07Z")
Although my first reaction was, “Where is J. Edgar now that we really need him?”, more mature consideration leads me to believe that it would be a disaster for the FBI to wade into this political swamp. Yes, they should investigate whether Trump or any member of his election team conspired with Russia, but stick to evidence. I am also conflicted over Deep Throat. On the one hand, it was news and I dislike all the government secrecy. On the other hand, it was likely illegal. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-fbi-and-trump-hypothetical/786398/17 "2017-05-16T04:18:59Z")
As long as they actually nail him on illegal stuff he’s done, then I have absolutely no problem with it. He should be a target of this sort of thing. I would not have a problem if all presidents suspected of numerous crimes were dealt with this way. The FBI shouldn’t be able to do anything if you haven’t done anything illegal, so I don’t see the political conflict. Trump is the stereotypical criminal business man made popular in the 80s, including the idiot ball they all often held. He should have been locked up over a decade ago. It’s only his money and relative harmlessness why he wasn’t. But he’s not harmless anymore, so get rid of him. Do your job and ensure the safety and security of this country.