# "War Between the States" or "Civil War"?? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067 "2011-04-28T18:43:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/21 "2011-04-28T19:53:01Z")
A _civil war_ is a struggle between two (or more) contending factions for _control of the same country_. But the Confederates were not trying to take over the central government. They had no interest in ruling the North. They were fighting for independence, very much as they had, oh, about four score years earlier. I think “War Between the States” is objectively more accurate, as well as more lyrical. But it may be a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/22 "2011-04-28T19:53:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve often heard the dry joke that there is never anything civil about war. > > It may even be a quote from somebody. I’m not sure. > [@lukeinva](#): > > An older gentleman once told me, “there was nothing civil about it.” He too preferred War between the States. Clever wordplay, though of the kind that ceases to be amusing after one has heard it a few times, and especially after one has heard it a few dozen or more times. Compare (in response to “good morning”) “what’s so good about it?”. Certainly no reason not to call it The Civil War. Anyone with two or more functioning brain cells knows which definition of “civil” applies. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/23 "2011-04-28T19:55:11Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > On those grounds, the [Nigerian Civil War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Civil_War) was not a real civil war, because Biafra had declared its independence from Nigeria. I didn’t say I AGREED with that viewpoint. I just reported that it was the viewpoint for much of the South. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/24 "2011-04-28T19:57:56Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > A _civil war_ is a struggle between two (or more) contending factions for _control of the same country_. > > But the Confederates were not trying to take over the central government. They weren’t trying to take over the entire government, but they certainly wanted control of some of the same country that the Unionists claimed as part of the U.S. I see no reason not to call it a civil war. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/25 "2011-04-28T19:57:57Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > This is a WAG, but there was rapidly an effort, as soon as the Civil War was over, to recast it not as a war to preserve the Southern right to own slaves (with it’s attendant issues) but as a war over states rights. Total bullshit, of course. Starting with a WAG then ending with a conclusion that a viewpoint is total bullshit 😕 Also just to add the victors write the history. Can you really be so certain that the bullshit is total as you state. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/26 "2011-04-28T20:00:08Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > They weren’t trying to take over the entire government, but they certainly wanted control of some of the same country that the Unionists claimed as part of the U.S. I see no reason not to call it a civil war. The objectives of the two sides were not equivalent; in the aptly-termed Spanish Civil War, for example, they were. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/27 "2011-04-28T20:06:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > For example, the Center for Military History, the official historian of the US Army, quite freely calls the unpleasantness the [Civil War](http://www.history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/resmat/civil_war/index.html)." _Now_ they do. For many years the name in Federal military accounts (some of which originals I’ve seen) was “War of the Rebellion.” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/28 "2011-04-28T20:11:43Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > “War Between the States” isn’t even a particularly accurate name, given that the primary antagonists were the rebel states and the federal government. It was my impression that the majority of the units formed in both armies were handled on the state level, hence a lot of units were men from the same locale. Example: [33rd Virginia Infantry Regiment - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Virginia_Infantry) This would almost make it seem like a “War Between the States” to me. I know that there were some Regular Federal Units that might be made up of men from different states, but compared to the State raised forces, their numbers were smaller, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/29 "2011-04-28T20:21:12Z")
It would be helpful to know which war was originally called a civil war. The earliest I can think of is the _English Civil War_ with Charles I and then Charles II. We got off lucky with only one war. The English Civil War was actually three wars. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/30 "2011-04-28T20:26:05Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Mods, this question might step into IMHO territory, but I thought it was best suited for GQ. I think it’s drifted pretty rapidly in that direction, so it’s probably best to move it. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/31 "2011-04-28T20:26:19Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > The objectives of the two sides were not equivalent; in the aptly-termed Spanish Civil War, for example, they were. They were entirely equivalent. Both sides were fighting over sovereign authority over the land. The fact that the disputed land did not make up the majority of the country is irrelevant. Looking at the list of names for the Civil War, I have to say “The War of Southern Aggression” carries a certain charm to it, particularly since they fired the first shots of the war in their attack on Fort Sumter. But yeah, I was always taught that it was The American Civil War, and for the longest time, assumed that when anyone said “War of Northern Aggression”, they were just being tongue-in-cheek about the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/32 "2011-04-28T20:30:08Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I have seen several TV and Movies portraying early 20th century Southerners getting (mildly) indignant when some youngster says the “Civil War.” They are instructed to say “War Between the States.” > > Why is “Civil War” a taboo term amongst early 20th century Southerners? > > Mods, this question might step into IMHO territory, but I thought it was best suited for GQ. I think a threshold question is, “do these programs accurately depcit Southern attitudes?” Was “War Between the States” actually a preferred locution, or just a Hollywood trope? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/33 "2011-04-28T21:17:32Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > _Now_ they do. For many years the name in Federal military accounts (some of which originals I’ve seen) was “War of the Rebellion.” Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that! > [@](#): > > I think “War Between the States” is objectively more accurate, as well as more lyrical. But Congress never declared it a war, so perhaps as long as we are wordsmithing, “Police Action Among the States” is objectively even more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/34 "2011-04-28T21:18:15Z")
According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war), [Dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civil+war), [TheFreeDictionary](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/civil+war), and [this Stanford University article](http://fsi.stanford.edu/news/civil_war_definition_transcends_politics_20060410/), the American Civil War was indeed a civil war. I would suggest that those arguing it doesn’t qualify due to some nitpicky nuance are perhaps being a bit too fussy over the term. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/35 "2011-04-28T22:13:40Z")
My ex-SiL from George calls it “the Civil War” and given a chance will go on and on about how it was all about state’s rights, and freedom. She get’s really annoyed when anybody mentions slavery. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/36 "2011-04-28T22:17:54Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Starting with a WAG then ending with a conclusion that a viewpoint is total bullshit 😕 Also just to add the victors write the history. Can you really be so certain that the bullshit is total as you state. That was not a WAG. The articles of secession specifically stated that slavery was the reason SC was seceding. Many other formal papers also stated the same. It was after the War that revisionists (southerners) for some reason denied that slavery was the issue, but that the reason was “state’s rights.” Some southerners even deny that slavery had anything to do with the attempted secession. Most southerners admit that slavery was an issue, but not the main issue. This is not germane to the OP. I just wanted to make a short comment on that issue. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/37 "2011-04-28T22:27:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve often heard the dry joke that there is never anything civil about war. > > It may even be a quote from somebody. I’m not sure. Q: “Why has there only been one American civil war?” A: “Americans are a rude people.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/38 "2011-04-28T23:40:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Q: “Why has there only been one American civil war?” > > A: “Americans are a rude people.” [Not all Americans.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdAXq3N2JmE) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/39 "2011-04-28T23:44:40Z")
Neither, it should be either the Great Rebellion or the Southern Rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067/40 "2011-04-29T01:20:49Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > A _civil war_ is a struggle between two (or more) contending factions for _control of the same country_. I’ve felt this to be the more accurate general definition for a long time, although I’m open to hearing a convincing counter-argument. > [@](#): > > I think “War Between the States” is objectively more accurate, as well as more lyrical. This I don’t agree with. Using this description makes it sounds as if both the core dispute and the fighting was only conducted between individual states; it completely ignores the existence of both federal governments and their central role on both sides of the conflict. My preference is for something along the lines of “the War of the [Southern] Secession”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-between-the-states-or-civil-war/580067.md?page=3)