# War cows **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115 "2011-06-02T19:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/41 "2011-06-03T05:21:38Z")
Having looked at some images of people riding cows, I immediately notice that cows are much lower and with shorter legs than horses. Someone riding a cow would be at an immediate disadvantage in height and speed to a horse rider, not to mention the increased agility of the horse. So even if riding a cow were practical, it would be an inferior option to a horse. Quick Googling says that cows run up to 20mph, whereas a horse gallops at ~30mph with a top speed around 45mph. I say “if it were practical” because most of the cattle I saw being ridden were Texas Longhorns and seemed to be more of a novelty act than anything else. But Texas Longhorns are a relatively recent breed (from a history of war standpoint, anyway) and whatever traits they have may have simply been missing from the local cattle, thus making them a poor choice for any nontraditional bovine roles. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/42 "2011-06-03T05:30:04Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Cows have the even more inherent behavior to run _en masse_ in the other direction when they’re spooked. Herd animals may group together to defend their young or when they greatly outnumber their opponents but usually they just want to move (quickly) somewhere less dangerous. I wouldn’t assume that a cow’s “inherent behavior” is to charge a line of pikes. Horses have the same herd and run away behavior. When horses attack, they generally try to bite or kick. When cows attack, they try to gore and send the person flying. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Having looked at some images of people riding cows, I immediately notice that cows are much lower and with shorter legs than horses. That’s simply a result of human selection. We want fast horses and fat cows. A wildebeest isn’t much shorter than a horse. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/43 "2011-06-03T05:37:35Z")
> [@treis](#): > > That’s simply a result of human selection. We want fast horses and fat cows. A wildebeest isn’t much shorter than a horse. We don’t domesticate wildebeest. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/44 "2011-06-03T06:12:02Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > We don’t domesticate wildebeest. So? The point is that there is nothing inherent about the cow family requiring short legs and fat bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/45 "2011-06-03T06:29:05Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The same way soldiers motivated horses to charge. Proper training and experience. My point is about inbuilt natural abilities. Cows have the inherent behavior to lower their head and gore someone. Horses do not. > [@treis](#): > > Horses have the same herd and run away behavior. When horses attack, they generally try to bite or kick. When cows attack, they try to gore and send the person flying. But you don’t want the animal you’re mounted on to be engaging directly with the enemy. With horse cavalry, the riders don’t encourage their mounts to kick or bite the enemy. Neither would you really want a war cow to be goring someone. The animal’s twisting and thrusting would make it very difficult to stay on. The enemy might go flying, but you would too. Mounts are for transporting humans so they can engage other humans with weapons. It wouldn’t be possible to train a cow to attack a human or another cow reliably enough to be worth it, especially at the risk of becoming dismounted yourself. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/46 "2011-06-03T08:37:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > We don’t domesticate wildebeest. Except in some cases of marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/47 "2011-06-03T09:32:17Z")
Because they don’t mooove fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/48 "2011-06-03T09:36:50Z")
What about monkeys? ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/49 "2011-06-03T10:08:56Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > What about monkeys? You need to fit them with wings to make them effective troops, which is a tricky proposition. “Continue the research.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/50 "2011-06-03T12:26:06Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > We don’t domesticate wildebeest. > [@treis](#): > > So? The point is that there is nothing inherent about the cow family requiring short legs and fat bodies. For one thing, wildebeest are antelope, not bovines so using them as your guide to what a war-cow should look like is misguided. **Colibri** hit on the point that the ability of a steed to run into things is down the list from speed, agility, ability to follow commands, etc. A cow is simply an inferior choice to a horse for those things. And for all the time you could waste trying to turn a cow into a horse, the other guy has horses. I disagree with your assertion that you just breed it to look/do what you want. There is something inherent about bovines being broad and shorter – that’s what bovines naturally look like. Look at water buffalo or zebu or yaks or musk oxen. We may have capitalized on these traits but we were taking the path of least resistance based on what we liked about the beasts. Taking a short, fat dumb animal and making it fatter is easy. Taking a short, fat animal and breeding it into a tall, lean animal that obeys rider commands is a lot different. And there’s no reason to assume that even with dedicated efforts you’d get what you want; plenty of animals prove unsuited for tasks because of their disposition (see earlier remarks on domesticating zebra) and even if you found a taller, leaner cow that doesn’t mean it’ll ever accept a rider or that a slightly more intelligent cow will keep those traits as you try to give it the body of a horse. In short, cows are just inferior choices as steeds in every aspect beyond running into things, “running into things” isn’t the principle job of a steed anyway, and there’s no good reason to assume you’d overcome these issues by breeding. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/51 "2011-06-03T12:43:25Z")
Speaking of [rhinocerous or zebra cavalry](http://en.risingshadow.net/library?action=book&book_id=14106)… ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/52 "2011-06-03T13:05:51Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > For one thing, wildebeest are antelope, not bovines Aren’t antelope bovines? [Apparently they are](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antelope), and [the wildebeest](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildebeest) is one of them. Though other than this I agree with your post. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/53 "2011-06-03T13:36:25Z")
From the Wiki link: > [@](#): > > There are 91 species, most of which are native to Africa, in about 30 genera. The classification of tribes or subfamilies within Bovidae is still a matter of debate, with several alternative systems proposed. > > Antelope are not a cladistic or taxonomically defined group. The term is used loosely to describe all members of the family Bovidae which do not fall under the category of sheep, cattle, or goat. “Bovine” refers more to [Bovini](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovini) than to the entire Bovidae family. You don’t, for example, usually hear “bovine” used to refer to sheep or goats. Wildebeest belong to Alcelaphinae which is a different subfamily within Bovidae from Bovinae and what we consider “bovines” are a subtribe even within Bovinae. In other words, wildebeest ain’t cows. Edit: Typing “Bovine” into Wiki redirects you to “Bovinae” which doesn’t include Wildebeest. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/54 "2011-06-03T14:00:10Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Edit: Typing “Bovine” into Wiki redirects you to “Bovinae” which doesn’t include Wildebeest. Fair enough. (Although some antelope do appear to fall in bovinae.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/55 "2011-06-03T14:39:53Z")
Anyone who wants to ride a bushbuck into combat should let us know how it goes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/56 "2011-06-03T15:11:18Z")
If the goal is to charge, gore, and stampede…what do you need riders for? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/57 "2011-06-03T15:28:24Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If the goal is to charge, gore, and stampede…what do you need riders for? To make sure they don’t charge, gore, and stampede your own soldiers, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/58 "2011-06-03T15:54:35Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > What about monkeys? Monkeys riding cows ? Now that’s just insane. Everybody knows monkeys ride tigers. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/59 "2011-06-03T17:34:32Z")
Honestly, I have nothing to add to this thread, just wanted to pop in and say I am enjoying the hell out of reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/60 "2011-06-03T18:06:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Monkeys riding cows ? Now that’s just insane. > > Everybody knows monkeys ride tigers. And tigers ride cows. _ipso facto_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115.md?page=4)