# War cows **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115 "2011-06-02T19:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/61 "2011-06-03T18:50:43Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > For one thing, wildebeest are antelope, not bovines so using them as your guide to what a war-cow should look like is misguided. > > **Colibri** hit on the point that the ability of a steed to run into things is down the list from speed, agility, ability to follow commands, etc. A cow is simply an inferior choice to a horse for those things. And for all the time you could waste trying to turn a cow into a horse, the other guy has horses. > > I disagree with your assertion that you just breed it to look/do what you want. There is something inherent about bovines being broad and shorter – that’s what bovines naturally look like. Look at water buffalo or zebu or yaks or musk oxen. We may have capitalized on these traits but we were taking the path of least resistance based on what we liked about the beasts. Taking a short, fat dumb animal and making it fatter is easy. Taking a short, fat animal and breeding it into a tall, lean animal that obeys rider commands is a lot different. And there’s no reason to assume that even with dedicated efforts you’d get what you want; plenty of animals prove unsuited for tasks because of their disposition (see earlier remarks on domesticating zebra) and even if you found a taller, leaner cow that doesn’t mean it’ll ever accept a rider or that a slightly more intelligent cow will keep those traits as you try to give it the body of a horse. > > In short, cows are just inferior choices as steeds in every aspect beyond running into things, “running into things” isn’t the principle job of a steed anyway, and there’s no good reason to assume you’d overcome these issues by breeding. I don’t expect to see cow horse, but something a bit slimmer and taller than a modern cow should easily be obtainable. Think about this too. In Rodeos they clamp the bulls balls to get him to ride like the dickens. Imagine if you did that just before hitting the enemy line. I know I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be in front of a pissed off ball clamped bull. You need to remember that these cows are going to be shoulder to shoulder. There’s no realistic way for them to veer either way. The natural instinct is going to take over, and that instinct is to run forward and gore the hell out of whatever is in your way. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/62 "2011-06-03T18:59:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > That’s what I am talking about. Horses don’t really stampede, but bovines do. A bunch of armored cows stampeding at infantry is going to fuck some shit up. Obviously, they aren’t going to be as useful as a screening force or flanking force, but for head on assault? I just can’t believe that Rhinos and Elephants have been tried, but not cows. Have Rhinos ever been used by anyone in warfare? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/63 "2011-06-03T19:13:52Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I know I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be in front of a pissed off ball clamped bull. You wouldn’t want to be riding him, either. Probably safer standing in front of him. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/64 "2011-06-03T19:29:59Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t expect to see cow horse, but something a bit slimmer and taller than a modern cow should easily be obtainable. Unless it’s a fair bit slimmer, taller, more agile, more intelligent and faster it’s still going to be inferior to a horse. > [@](#): > > Think about this too. In Rodeos they clamp the bulls balls to get him to ride like the dickens. Imagine if you did that just before hitting the enemy line. I know I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be in front of a pissed off ball clamped bull. So you’re going to spend all this time training wall-bull steeds to allow a rider, take orders, not freak out at the sounds & smells of war and then ditch using it as a steed and instead use it as a one-shot weapon against a bunch of swords, spears, guns, arrows, etc? > [@](#): > > You need to remember that these cows are going to be shoulder to shoulder. There’s no realistic way for them to veer either way. Sounds like an awesome way to be flanked and destroyed by equine cavalry. ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/65 "2011-06-03T19:59:16Z")
And if the battle was in a place with green pastures with lots of green grass? I think halfway thro the charge the cows would suddenly stop and start feeding… Just sayin… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/66 "2011-06-03T20:28:06Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Have Rhinos ever been used by anyone in warfare? Oh [yes](http://www.ifelix.co.uk/images989/IMG_3390.jpg). Wait, maybe that’s not what you meant 😃 ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/67 "2011-06-03T20:30:10Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > From all accounts they can be trained in rudimentary tasks I think you mean ruminantary. ---
**Author:** ![DZedNConfused](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dzednconfused/32/15991_2.png) [@DZedNConfused](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DZedNConfused)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/68 "2011-06-03T20:32:45Z")
My first thought was: Europeans didn’t HAVE time to breed cattle to be horses when they had Mongols, Vandals, Huns and other assorted armed and horse mounted peoples sweeping down upon them. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/69 "2011-06-03T20:51:14Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > The simple fact is that cattle, whether domestic or wild simply are not as fast or maneuverable as horses over distances of more than a few hundred yards. Which is a basic fact of their anatomy. If you tried to breed cows for speed & maneuverability, they would end up looking like . . . horses. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/70 "2011-06-03T20:54:41Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Any right thinking cow is going to try to go around such an obstacle, not through it. But a herd in stampede mode is in no way _right thinking!_ ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/71 "2011-06-03T20:56:47Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Which is a basic fact of their anatomy. > > If you tried to breed cows for speed & maneuverability, they would end up looking like . . . horses. Also, good luck going to the bank and trying to get a loan for that business plan. Breeding… maneuverability… cavalry… no, I don’t think this works for us. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/72 "2011-06-03T21:14:43Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > But a herd in stampede mode is in no way _right thinking!_ How so? A stampede is nothing but the most basic of fight or flight responses. A cow or herd without that instinct would quickly be erased by natural selection. A stampede is not the same thing as blind panic. If it was, then they’d be just as likely to run _toward_ a pack of hyenas than _away_. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/73 "2011-06-03T21:30:21Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > How so? A stampede is nothing but the most basic of fight or flight responses. A cow or herd without that instinct would quickly be erased by natural selection. A stampede is not the same thing as blind panic. If it was, then they’d be just as likely to run _toward_ a pack of hyenas than _away_. Isn’t the stampede mentality the basic working point of the Native Americans’ [buffalo jump](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump)s? From Wiki (regarding cattle stamepedes)… > [@](#): > > A large stampede will frequently eliminate anything in its path. With farmed animals, cowboys attempt to turn the moving herd into itself, so that it runs in circles rather than self-destructing by running over a cliff or into a river, or from damaging human life or property by overrunning human settlements. Sounds pretty “blind panic-y” to me. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/74 "2011-06-03T21:34:52Z")
Well, there were the buffalo soldiers of the original U.S. 10th Cavalry Regiment… ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/75 "2011-06-03T21:55:34Z")
On horse, you can shoot an arrow pretty accurately by firing while all four hooves are in the air. I’m no expert but I don’t think bovine have the same gait. > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Because they don’t mooove fast enough. That’s udderly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/76 "2011-06-03T21:57:32Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Isn’t the stampede mentality the basic working point of the Native Americans’ [buffalo jump](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump)s? > > From Wiki (regarding cattle stamepedes)… > > Sounds pretty “blind panic-y” to me. Just because a smarter animal can take advantage of an instinct does not make that instict illogical. Is the fishy instinct to eat worms illogical because on occasion there is a hook secreted in it? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/77 "2011-06-03T23:17:18Z")
I never said it was illogical from a normal survival perspective. I was showing that cattle in a stampede aren’t exactly thinking it through as evidenced by the whole “running off cliffs” thing. Not just in the case of Indians who are causing it for hunting but also cowboys who would rather avoid having their cattle all die in a hole. I’m sure on the plains or veldt it works swimmingly but I don’t see any evidence that it’s not a blind panicked run which isn’t anything you want from your war steeds. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/78 "2011-06-03T23:24:06Z")
Speaking of stampedes, the same Wiki said that Texas Longhorns were the most prone to nervousness and stampedes. So the only cow I’ve seen people riding with any “regularity” would probably be among the _worse_ for taking into battle which goes back to the whole “Just because you think you can breed it doesn’t mean you can” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/79 "2011-06-03T23:40:01Z")
I suggest cows with fricken’ laser beams strapped to their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/80 "2011-06-04T04:20:50Z")
I seem to remember seeing a documentary of sorts on early Britain that showed a small skirmish with the French that involved a cow. But in that case it was not used as a steed but as a weapon. Did not go well for the English as I recall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115.md?page=5)