# War cows **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115 "2011-06-02T19:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/81 "2011-06-04T06:41:22Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I never said it was illogical from a normal survival perspective. I was showing that cattle in a stampede aren’t exactly thinking it through as evidenced by the whole “running off cliffs” thing. Not just in the case of Indians who are causing it for hunting but also cowboys who would rather avoid having their cattle all die in a hole. I’m sure on the plains or veldt it works swimmingly but I don’t see any evidence that it’s not a blind panicked run which isn’t anything you want from your war steeds. It’s just a herd/flocking behavior. It isn’t so much blind, as each bovine is following the one next to them. That means that there are and are not leaders of the pack at the same time. You just need to be able to control the key cows and get them moving in the same direction. Really that’s all that a stampede is. It is “lets all run in the same direction”. If you control the direction, then a stampede is exactly what you want against infantry. Horses have the same behavior. The only difference is that horses are rarely in a herd the size of a bovine herd. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/82 "2011-06-04T07:21:59Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you control the direction, then a stampede is exactly what you want against infantry. A bunch of steeds that are only quasi-blind panicked instead of fully blind panicked? Yeah, I’m going to put my money on the other team. > [@](#): > > Horses have the same behavior. The only difference is that horses are rarely in a herd the size of a bovine herd. Well, no. The major difference is that horses can be trained to stay in control when there’s cannons going off next to them or gunfire or fiery catapult missiles or arrows whizzing about. Besides all the other problems, you don’t seem to know what you want out of these poor beasts. In one post, you insist that they be ridden. Then you want to use them in ways completely counter to a mounted steed. You want them to be trained as war mounts but want to throw them away on infantry charges where their immediate death would be the priority for the other side. None of them are very practical uses for cattle in general and aside from “they can gore”, you haven’t even given a good reason to use them. Stick with horses. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/83 "2011-06-04T09:40:57Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I suggest cows with fricken’ laser beams strapped to their heads. Armed monkeys riding cows with fricken’ laser beams strapped to their heads. Eliminates all need for human soldiers. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > I seem to remember seeing a documentary of sorts on early Britain that showed a small skirmish with the French that involved a cow. Speaking of cows, war, and the French, there’s [this movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053403/). (I’ve no idea why they put the title in Italian; it’s a French movie. Or does it only appear in Italian because I’m in Italy right now?) ---
**Author:** ![not\_austin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@not\_austin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_austin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/84 "2011-06-04T10:03:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Apparently the Romans did something like this too as a Wunderwaffe against Carthaginian elephants: soak a pig in petrol, light, point in general direction. Between the fire and the horrible screeching (if you’ve ever bothered a pig, you’ll know what I’m talking about), elephants backed off. > > I said bothered, not buggered ! So pigs don’t screech when you bugger them? Ignorance fought! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/85 "2011-06-04T15:17:22Z")
> [@not\_austin](#): > > So pigs don’t screech when you bugger them? Ignorance fought! 😉 Oh I’m sure as far as the pig is concerned a buggering is bothersome :). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/86 "2011-06-04T15:18:42Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Speaking of cows, war, and the French, there’s [this movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053403/). (I’ve no idea why they put the title in Italian; it’s a French movie. Or does it only appear in Italian because I’m in Italy right now?) Fernandel didn’t ride the cow to charge at the Nazis, though. It would have been awesome, but he didn’t. ETA (and yes, imdb switches languages on the fly based on your IP. It’s a pain in the ass, and I don’t know how to make it stop) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/87 "2011-06-05T03:41:09Z")
As a Canadian who has spent way too much time in the woods, I have to nominate the moose as a cavalry animal. You’ve got the size, the height, the fearless disposition… ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/88 "2011-06-05T04:22:35Z")
**War Cows** This is possibly the finest band name yet proposed here. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/89 "2011-06-05T04:22:50Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > As a Canadian who has spent way too much time in the woods, I have to nominate the moose as a cavalry animal. You’ve got the size, the height, the fearless disposition… And moose bites can be veri nasti… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/90 "2011-06-05T04:36:19Z")
Horses have a certain noble cachet; historically speaking it’s been hard to get armies to give up horses even when it made immediate sense to do so. There’s so much history and social class wrapped up in being on the back of a horse that asking an army to trade horses for bovines is just not a realistic thing to expect them to do even if you knew it would work - and the first person to try it wouldn’t know, because it would be wholly experimental. In other words, there’s just too much at steak. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/91 "2011-06-05T16:10:56Z")
Well, war cows worked for the Nali at least… ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/92 "2011-06-06T13:37:40Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Zebras have never been domesticated. They are not temperamentally suited (they fight back far too much). I know we’re in GQ. But a friend has his own story setting, which has magic elements in it. I have absolutely got to propose a story involving zebra cav, using animal-empathy to get the zebras to cooperate. Off the top of my head (I am not an animal breeder), I don’t see why cattle couldn’t be bred for speed, agility, and intelligence the same way war horses have been bred. ETA: > [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Armed monkeys riding cows with fricken’ laser beams strapped to their heads. Eliminates all need for human soldiers. How about using overgrown chimpanzees instead of monkeys, horses instead of cows, repeating rifled firearms instead of FLBs, and train them to aim the weapons instead of simply strapping the weapons to their heads? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/93 "2011-06-06T15:56:28Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I seem to remember seeing a documentary of sorts on early Britain that showed a small skirmish with the French that involved a cow. But in that case it was not used as a steed but as a weapon. Did not go well for the English as I recall. Why was there a French castle in Britain? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/94 "2011-06-06T17:06:53Z")
[Run Away!!!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qxqvjTbu0) ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/95 "2011-06-06T17:09:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Why was there a French castle in Britain? [Mind your own business.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FJVAcvVcPQ) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/96 "2011-06-06T17:37:28Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I don’t see why cattle couldn’t be bred for speed, agility, and intelligence the same way war horses have been bred. Look at your raw materials. Wild horses such as [tarpans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpan), [Przewalski’s horse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przewalski%27s_Horse) and zebras all look(ed) pretty much like horses. Wild bovines such as African water buffalo, yaks, bison, musk oxen, aurochs, etc all look pretty much like cattle. Horses were bred for speed and agility because they were _already_ swift, agile animals. Cattle don’t have that going for them and you’re trying to reverse several traits at once (slow to fast, lumbering to agile, etc) rather than enhancing existing traits. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/97 "2011-06-06T18:22:57Z")
I don’t know if this has been researched scientifically yet, but the German fiction author Karl May wrote in book 3 of his African triolgy,[Im Sudan](http://www.karl-may-gesellschaft.de/kmg/primlit/reise/mahdi/gr18/kptl_1.htm) (In the Sudan) about the Africans there who use oxen to ride on and carry supplies. > [@](#): > > Pferde und Kamele giebt es in diesen Regionen nicht; sie sind vollständig unnütz und gehen überhaupt sehr schnell zu Grunde. Man bedient sich dort eines Reittieres, welches freilich nicht so edel wie das arabische Roß und nicht so oft besungen wie das »Schiff der Wüste« ist, nämlich des Ochsen. > > Diese Tiere gedeihen am sümpfereichen Obernile ganz vortrefflich. Sie sind stark, schnell, gelehrig und dabei recht gutmütig. Die Reitochsen scheinen sich durch Zucht herausgebildet zu haben und eine Rasse für sich zu sein. Natürlich werden sie auch zum Tragen von Lasten verwendet. > > Horses and camels don’t exist in these regions (the upper white nile, a marshy region), they are completly useless and quickly decay anyway. You use a different riding animal, which is not as noble as the arabian horse, and not sung about as often as the “ship of the desert” (the camel), though, namely the oxen. > > These animals prosper on the marshy upper nile quite well. They are strong, fast, teachable and rather good-natured at the same time. The riding oxen seem to have developed from breeding, and seem to be a race by themself. Of course they are also used to carry burdens (Translation by me) Later, he has negroes riding into battle - though not armed with cannons or big guns, mostly old-fashioned rifles, so no danger of stampede. He also notes that these oxen are much more intellingent than the bovines he usually knows. On the one hand, Karl May researched his facts as well as he could by reading reports from explorers (given his time of late 19th century); on the other hand, because he didn’t really visit those countries, he often fell into inaccuriecies. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/98 "2011-06-06T18:35:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Look at your raw materials. Wild horses such as [tarpans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpan), [Przewalski’s horse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przewalski%27s_Horse) and zebras all look(ed) pretty much like horses. Wild bovines such as African water buffalo, yaks, bison, musk oxen, aurochs, etc all look pretty much like cattle. Horses were bred for speed and agility because they were _already_ swift, agile animals. Cattle don’t have that going for them and you’re trying to reverse several traits at once (slow to fast, lumbering to agile, etc) rather than enhancing existing traits. Thanks! Now I see why not. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/99 "2011-06-06T18:43:50Z")
I would just like to add, at this juncture, that you can play a Tauren in World of Warcraft. If that doesn’t qualify as a war cow, I don’t know what does. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115/100 "2011-06-06T20:22:43Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I don’t know if this has been researched scientifically yet, but the German fiction author Karl May wrote in book 3 of his African triolgy,[Im Sudan](http://www.karl-may-gesellschaft.de/kmg/primlit/reise/mahdi/gr18/kptl_1.htm) (In the Sudan) about the Africans there who use oxen to ride on and carry supplies. I found [a picture](http://www.periodpaper.com/index.php/geographic-locale/africa/1930-aulad-hamid-man-ox-sudan-africa-hugo-a-bernatzik) of a Sudanese riding ox. Nifty. It’s not cavalry but it’s something besides novelty photos of people on Texas longhorns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-cows/584115.md?page=6)