# "War Hero" John McCain is a Complete Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835 "2010-12-03T17:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/21 "2010-12-03T19:52:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t doubt you, but I’d be very interested in seeing his exact quotes. Do you have a cite? Admittedly, i was arguing from my memory of McCain’s earlier position; i’ll do a search and see if i can find what he actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/22 "2010-12-03T19:53:05Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Whatever else John McCain has done, he certainly does not deserve contempt for what he went through in Vietnam. The “War Hero” in the title is unjustified. Nope. If this guy is going to force patriotic gay americans to live in the closet and live in fear of discharge for living their lives, then he himself has no respect for our troops, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/23 "2010-12-03T20:09:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t doubt you, but I’d be very interested in seeing his exact quotes. Do you have a cite? The Daily Show did a nifty compilation of his recent statements on the subject. Watch them evolve, complete with date stamps. Here’s a link to one NOT on Comedy Central, so people outside the US should be able to watch. [It Gets Worse](http://www.afterelton.com/video/2010/11/daily-show-mccain-dadt-it-gets-worse) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/24 "2010-12-03T20:14:34Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Nope. If this guy is going to force patriotic gay americans to live in the closet and live in fear of discharge for living their lives, then he himself has no respect for our troops, IMO. What does that have to do with his service and captivity for 7 years in North Vietnam? I don’t agree with him right now at all, but even so I can differentiate the two, just as I can with Randy Cunningham. Whatever else they did, they served honorably, and do not deserve contempt for their service. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/25 "2010-12-03T20:18:10Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > On the other hand, there is the prospect of the courts finding DADT unconstitutional: > It’s entirely possible that this carrot-and-stick strategy, plus a little arm-twisting and /or horse-trading behind the scenes, could reduce support for a filibuster to the point where a repeal will make it through. I actually think that for much of the GOP a court overturning it is significantly better politically than it passing Congress. More ammo for “judicial activism” with a side of “TEH GAYS!!!”. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/26 "2010-12-03T20:28:20Z")
The thing about John McCain’s service history is he’s worn it like a badge his entire public career, as if it automatically confers moral authority. At a certain point, some tarnish begins to form on that badge just through overuse. I’ve certainly not seen many critics treat his _service_ with contempt, but I do see him criticised for perceived hypocrisy. I don’t really see how he rates active duty service members or veterans being thin skinned on his behalf. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/27 "2010-12-03T20:31:25Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > The thing about John McCain’s service history is he’s worn it like a badge his entire public career, as if it automatically confers moral authority. A badge? More like a cloak intended to be laid over every single statement he makes and every single policy he supports. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/28 "2010-12-03T20:33:45Z")
Don’t harsh my metaphor, dude. 😉 ETA: To be honest, I didn’t really like it when John Kerry did the same thing. (Although he received a _whole_ lot of contempt from some conservative factions, as I recall.) ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/29 "2010-12-03T20:35:38Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Whatever else John McCain has done, he certainly does not deserve contempt for what he went through in Vietnam. The “War Hero” in the title is unjustified. He got captured due to his own negligence, was held captive for 7 years, cracked under torture and gave up info on his ship. What part of that is “heroic”? Even his “refused to be released early” schtick, was a stance that _all_ prisoners at the Hanoi Hilton agreed to. Even then, adhering to the promise was admirable but not really any more heroic then anyone else there. Yes, his having been tortured is tragic, but less so now that he himself supports the torture of prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/30 "2010-12-03T20:38:00Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I actually think that for much of the GOP a court overturning it is significantly better politically than it passing Congress. More ammo for “judicial activism” with a side of “TEH GAYS!!!”. Right, which is why publicly calling a judicial repeal “the worst possible outcome” the way Gates did is such a clever move. Behind the scenes, the administration, the more hawkish Democrats, and the more moderate Republicans can point out that the “activist judge” fig leaf will shrivel to uselessness under the onslaught of a properly clued-in campaign. Granted, the 13 Republican senators whose terms are up in 2014 probably don’t have much to worry about, and I suspect some will retire, but the 2012 elections will have 10 Republican seats going on the block, and 3 or 4 of them will be tough fights. If they can move on this before the break, that’s all they need to stop a filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/31 "2010-12-03T20:57:25Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > He got captured due to his own negligence, was held captive for 7 years, cracked under torture and gave up info on his ship. What part of that is “heroic”? The part where he heroically took a piloting job from a more qualified candidate (you know, one who didn’t graduate in the bottom half of a percent of his class) by having the foresight to have his dad and granddad both be Admirals. He also heroically avoided dying when he crashed two other planes in training missions. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/32 "2010-12-03T21:02:43Z")
Another thread that may be of interest: [What is up with John McCain? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=587778) ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/33 "2010-12-03T21:32:22Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The part where he heroically took a piloting job from a more qualified candidate (you know, one who didn’t graduate in the bottom half of a percent of his class) by having the foresight to have his dad and granddad both be Admirals. He also heroically avoided dying when he crashed two other planes in training missions. See, now if hew was truly a hero he would have used those connections to get out of having to go to Viet Nam by jumping the line to get into the National Guard and then just wandering off aimlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/34 "2010-12-03T22:13:48Z")
Many of McCain’s actions since being released from captivity (particularly in recent years) point to a severe and largely untreated case of PTSD. In my non-medical opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/35 "2010-12-03T22:22:35Z")
Is it just my faulty memory, or did McCain’s politics take a serious hard right turn in the mid-2000’s? I seem to recall a much more socially liberal McCain earlier…? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/36 "2010-12-03T22:44:17Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Is it just my faulty memory, or did McCain’s politics take a serious hard right turn in the mid-2000’s? I seem to recall a much more socially liberal McCain earlier…? I don’t think he used to harp about those things before, but I also don’t think he was ever in favor of gays serving in the military. For vets his age, that’s probably a pretty common position. The thing about McCain that makes it seem odd he’s latched onto these socially conservative causes is that he just isn’t religious. He’s not like a Huckabee who derives his social conservatism from his religion. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/37 "2010-12-03T23:37:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think he used to harp about those things before, but I also don’t think he was ever in favor of gays serving in the military. For vets his age, that’s probably a pretty common position. > > The thing about McCain that makes it seem odd he’s latched onto these socially conservative causes is that he just isn’t religious. He’s not like a Huckabee who derives his social conservatism from his religion. Oh hell, I’m a 63-year old Vietnam vet and I can tell you I wouldn’t care who the hell was in the foxhole with me as long as he did his job and I could rely on him to be there when the shit hit the fan. I think you’d get the same answer if you asked any soldier today if he’d rather have a straight coward or a gay fighting man next to him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/38 "2010-12-03T23:49:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Oh hell, I’m a 63-year old Vietnam vet and I can tell you I wouldn’t care who the hell was in the foxhole with me as long as he did his job and I could rely on him to be there when the shit hit the fan. McCain is a lot older than you. > [@](#): > > I think you’d get the same answer if you asked any soldier today if he’d rather have a straight coward or a gay fighting man next to him. That’s not the question being asked. But it’s clear that there are many soldiers, today, who don’t want openly gay people serving with them. That is a fact. Maybe not a majority, but a sizable minority. I commend you on your enlightened stance, but I don’t for second believe that it is universal either in or out of the service. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/39 "2010-12-04T01:52:13Z")
Setting the bar a mite high, aren’t you, **John**? Universal acceptance of any minority group would be hard to find in any segment of the population. So? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835/40 "2010-12-04T01:57:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Setting the bar a mite high, aren’t you, **John**? Universal acceptance of any minority group would be hard to find in any segment of the population. So? I didn’t set that bar. Chefguy kinda sorta did, but he couched it behind a question that isn’t really the question at hand. A less than careful reader of his post could easily assume that he was saying the he was OK with gays in the military and no soldier would have qualms about serving with a gay person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-hero-john-mccain-is-a-complete-asshole/562835.md?page=3)