# War literature (for a 17 y/o) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668 "2013-10-08T09:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/41 "2013-10-10T10:59:43Z")
Leon Uris? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/42 "2013-10-10T14:37:05Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > Yes, in Dutch schools (VWO) the level is expected to be very high. They are meant to be reading adult novels like the ones I mentioned, but obviously as she is taking lessons with me she isn’t quite there yet. She would absolutely be able to read them, that’s not really the problem. > > It’s more that… well, I want her to enjoy reading. And often when it’s always been difficult, the pleasure in reading isn’t a natural thing. But I think (shh don’t say it too loudly!) I might have lit a tiny little spark? When we do poetry (we did Romantic poetry last term, war poetry this term, and I sneak in Shakespeare etc when I can) she lights up. For all her trouble with the language, she really _gets_ the poetry! So while not directly related to today’s question, lyrics are something I found a great source of vocabulary and of “things they don’t teach you in class”. I first encoutered English’ literal treatment of dialectal variations and, uh, non-dictionary pronunciations in the lyrics of Queen’s The Works, of all places. That year’s teacher had encouraged us to try and understand the lyrics to the songs we liked, and to ask questions about it; the more-by-the-book ones would have totally freaked out at being asked “why does it say ‘cos’ here?” (IIRC, there were two different alternate spellings of “because” - yes, in the lyrics of the same record) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/43 "2013-10-10T15:16:01Z")
_The Good War_ by Studs Terkel. A tremendous book I can’t say enough good things about. It is quite long. OTOH it’s really composed of many brief memoirs (taken from spoken interviews) of civilian WWII experiences. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/44 "2013-10-10T15:59:57Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > My personal favorite is the story of Felix von Luckner, aka the _Seeadler_. [Amazon book link](http://www.amazon.com/The-Cruise-Sea-Eagle-Gentleman/dp/1592286941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381420437&sr=8-1&keywords=seeadler) I read that book in my teens, and became facinated with the anachronism of a wooden sailing ship being used as a man of war in WW1. But I don’t know if that kind of thing would appeal to girls/young women. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/45 "2013-10-10T16:06:51Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I read that book in my teens, and became facinated with the anachronism of a wooden sailing ship being used as a man of war in WW1. But I don’t know if that kind of thing would appeal to girls/young women. Well, diff’rent strokes fer diff’rent folks… ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/46 "2013-10-10T17:09:00Z")
Are we talking fiction or nonfiction? If we stray from literature _per se_ into history, I’d recommend John Keegan’s inimitable _[The Face of Battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Face_of_Battle)_. Keegan talks about the pitfalls in understanding what we read in historical accounts of battles, examines the experiences of individual soldiers, and discusses myths and misunderstandings about warfare. There’s also a brilliant analogy between alpine mountain climbing, which started out as a social event but became increasingly technical, isolating, and physically arduous, and warfare’s steadily increasing technology and vast expansion, leaving individuals similarly isolated and exhausted. Both for his advice on how to interpret “battle pieces” one will read elsewhere, and his open-eyed depiction of the horrors of battle, this is a useful book for young people to read in their formative years. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/47 "2013-10-10T17:16:25Z")
Another vote for The Book Thief. Classified as YA, but one of my favorite books of the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/48 "2013-10-10T17:58:05Z")
Was going to say _The Red Badge of Courage_, but it’s already been mentioned. It’s lovely - not too long, straightforward, but beautifully told. Powerful, even in its simplicity. _The Book Thief_ is excellent; easily one of the best books I’ve read. It’s got a great story, and really flows. However, I can see how the author’s use of language might cause a bit of difficulty. He’s very lyrical, and the imagery is outstanding. But if she’s very literal, it might confuse her. A few examples: [QUOTE=Markus Zusak, The Book Thief] “Trust me, though, the words were on their way, and when they arrived, Liesel would hold them in her hands like the clouds, and she would wring them out like rain.” “Somewhere, far down, there was an itch in his heart, but he made it a point not to scratch it. He was afraid of what might come leaking out.” "One of the Jews on his way to Dachau had stopped walking now. He stood absolutely still as the others swerved morosely around him, leaving him completely alone. His eyes staggered, and it was so simple. The words were given across from the girl to the Jew. They climbed on to him. The next time she spoke, the questions stumbled from her mouth. Hot tears fought for room in her eyes as she would not let them out. Better to stand resolute and proud. Let the words do all of it." [/QUOTE] It’s still a beautiful, beautiful book, and more than worth the reading. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/49 "2013-10-10T18:03:47Z")
I totally missed the part where you mentioned that she loves poetry. In that case, I’d whole-heartedly recommend _The Book Thief_ for her. The imagery, the way he uses words - amazing. It totally captivated me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/50 "2013-10-10T18:17:12Z")
When I was 17 I read [August 1914](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_1914) by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/51 "2013-10-10T18:59:54Z")
As for an “easy” read, I’d reccomend [Black Hawk Down: A Story of Modern War](http://www.amazon.com/Black-Hawk-Down-Story-Modern/dp/080214473X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1381431250&sr=1-1). Orginaly based on a series of newspaper articles, it’s quite accessable. The original articles are available free online as well.[Black Hawk Down](http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/sitemap.asp). I also reccomend Jeff Sharra’s The Killer Angels. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/52 "2013-10-10T19:27:46Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I totally missed the part where you mentioned that she loves poetry. In that case, I’d whole-heartedly recommend _The Book Thief_ for her. The imagery, the way he uses words - amazing. It totally captivated me. This, but for _The Red Badge of Courage_. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/53 "2013-10-10T21:31:49Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > _ **Going after Cacciato** _, by Tim O’Brien. Starts out in Vietnam, and is one of the most surreal novels I’ve ever read. Thank you! I’ve been trying to think of the name of that for years. So, that one, and **Johnny Got His Gun**. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/54 "2013-10-10T21:33:56Z")
If _any_ war fiction is acceptable how about [Starship Troopers](http://www.amazon.com/Starship-Troopers-Robert-A-Heinlein/dp/0441783589)? It is definitely a war story even though it is sci-fi. For that matter add [Ender’s Game](http://www.amazon.com/Enders-Ender-Quintet-Orson-Scott/dp/0812550706/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381440787&sr=1-1&keywords=ender%27s+game) into that mix. For something a little nearer this century Florence Nightengale’s Letters from Crimea are graphic but give a good account of the horrors of war from the medical end. I greatly enjoyed Chickenhawk by Robert Mason and his account of Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/55 "2013-10-10T21:58:35Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > I totally missed the part where you mentioned that she loves poetry. In that case, I’d whole-heartedly recommend _The Book Thief_ for her. The imagery, the way he uses words - amazing. It totally captivated me. Hehe, yeah that does sound like something should would do well with, actually! Thanks very much for posting the excerpt. The first time we looked at _Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow_ she looked at “Life’s but a walking shadow” and commented that it reminded her of Plato’s shadows on the wall of the cave. She said: “Like that, only he’s saying it’s _just the shadows_ without the actual people there to cast the shadows. Nothing but shadows on the wall of a cave.” She’s a clever-clogs. Dunno why she comes to me for lessons really! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/56 "2013-10-11T02:43:11Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > If _any_ war fiction is acceptable how about [Starship Troopers](http://www.amazon.com/Starship-Troopers-Robert-A-Heinlein/dp/0441783589)? It is definitely a war story even though it is sci-fi. For that matter add [Ender’s Game](http://www.amazon.com/Enders-Ender-Quintet-Orson-Scott/dp/0812550706/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381440787&sr=1-1&keywords=ender%27s+game) into that mix. [The Forever War](http://www.amazon.com/Forever-War-Joe-Haldeman/dp/0312536631/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381459337&sr=1-1&keywords=forever+war) was a good read at that age, too. Starship Troopers had something which was true for me and even more for many girls of previous generations, but which nowadays seems unbelievable to the immense majority of people: the way the gender separation in the forces affects gender relations. That bit about wanting to get guard duty because you might hear a female voice is the part where I fell off the bed for the second time and decided it would be safer to stay down. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/57 "2013-10-11T06:49:15Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > The first time we looked at _Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow_ she looked at “Life’s but a walking shadow” and commented that it reminded her of Plato’s shadows on the wall of the cave. She said: “Like that, only he’s saying it’s _just the shadows_ without the actual people there to cast the shadows. Nothing but shadows on the wall of a cave.” Holy crap! A 17-year-old said that?!? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/58 "2013-10-11T06:50:34Z")
I also read _ **Starship Troopers** _ and _ **The Forever War** _ back-to-back. A real study in contrasts! ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/59 "2013-10-11T13:27:43Z")
Herman Wouk 's books. Winds of War and War and Remembrance. I read them in my teens. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668/60 "2013-10-15T18:14:56Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I also read _ **Starship Troopers** _ and _ **The Forever War** _ back-to-back. A real study in contrasts! I actually took a college course in which we read and contrasted these two. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-literature-for-a-17-y-o/670668.md?page=4)