# War of 1812 Revisionism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424 "2010-03-05T15:59:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/1 "2010-03-05T15:59:39Z")
The US won the war of 1812 - period. It says so right [here](http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/M-638_red.pdf) under US government Civic Lesson #72. They give this booklet to those studying to become US Citizens - so they will know everything there is to know about being American. “The War of 1812 lasted from 1812 through 1815. President James Madison asked Congress to declare war on Great Britain. The British were stopping and seizing American ships. They were also arming American Indians to fight against the Americans. As a result of this war, the nation’s trade was disrupted and the U.S. Capitol was burned. **The Americans won the war.** This was the first time after the Revolutionary War that America had to fight a foreign country to protect its independence.” Fact or historical revisionism? My own interpretation is that the war was at best a draw for the Americans, the Canadians and the British - with the natives being big losers. Either I am out to lunch or the US goverment is not being honest to its newest citizens. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/2 "2010-03-05T16:22:52Z")
IIRC from high-school history, **immediately after the war,** the Americans told themselves they had “won” it because they had won the last major battle of it, the Battle of New Orleans (which, due to slow transoceanic communication, actually was fought a few weeks after the peace treaty was signed, which must have amused the dead soldiers’ families to no end). The Americans also triumphantly proclaimed, “Not an inch of territory lost or ceded!” Even though they had begun the war with “On to Canada!” and then the attempt to conquer Canada didn’t work out too well. So, the “revisionism” in this particular case is very old, and hallowed by time, and let not our unworthy hands sully it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/3 "2010-03-05T16:46:35Z")
The ostensible causes of the war went away: the Brits stopped supporting the Indians, and (because of the defeat of Napoleon) impressment stopped. The Americans faced no further threat from Britain WRT expansion, or at least nothing that couldn’t be negotiated away. Britain has never messed with us since, aside from being something of a nuisance during the Civil War. The Canada adventure was a bust, but we never had Canada in the first place, so no big deal there. I’m inclined to give the very slight edge to the Americans, but the British were so pleased to have Napoleon out of the way that they barely noticed. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/4 "2010-03-05T16:52:20Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > My own interpretation is that the war was at best a draw for the Americans, **the Canadians** and the British - with the natives being big losers. Either I am out to lunch or the US goverment is not being honest to its newest citizens. A draw? If the war was just a draw for Canada what would a victory look like? ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/5 "2010-03-05T16:52:23Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Fact or historical revisionism? As **BrainGlutton** mentioned, it was a revisionism or “re-imagining” in-progress. Through incompetence and lack of planning, the US bungled their attempt to invade and conquer Canada. Once those plans failed, victory was redefined as surviving and holding off the British (a la “The Star Spangled Banner”) rather than accomplishing the original war aims. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/6 "2010-03-05T16:55:05Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > A draw? If the war was just a draw for Canada what would a victory look like? Probably conquering the entire Great Lakes area as well as northern New York state (so that Montreal wouldn’t be so close to any international border) and maybe northern Maine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/7 "2010-03-05T16:59:08Z")
And actually burning the White House, instead of just telling themselves the fiction that they did, not British troops. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/8 "2010-03-05T16:59:28Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > Probably conquering the entire Great Lakes area as well as northern New York state (so that Montreal wouldn’t be so close to any international border) and maybe northern Maine. “Unite and defeat the invaders” isn’t ambitious enough for you? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/9 "2010-03-05T17:02:24Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > A draw? If the war was just a draw for Canada what would a victory look like? As Camus mentions, Britain/Canada had to give back a large amount of conquered territory at the end of the war. A victory for Canada might have included an enlargement of its borders. But were victorious as far as surviving an aggressive attack and emerging as a more unified land. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/10 "2010-03-05T17:10:35Z")
It is interesting to hear that historically American’s have declared the war a victory - but I am still surprised to see it declared as such in modern day civic lessons. Those lessons regularily update the name of the President, have new questions about 9/11 etc. Ten of thousands of aspiring citizens read/study those notes every year. I guess I expect revisionism like this in a textbook from North Korea, but from an American Federal Goverment’s source it seems rather rank. It is not like America really has anything to be ashamed of about the war of 1812 either. The attacks on Canada did not go well but they were able to hold there own for the most part against a far superior, albeit very distracted, power. Long term affects to the country were good as they were able to use the war as a means to put down native rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/11 "2010-03-05T17:21:31Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > As Camus mentions, Britain/Canada had to give back a large amount of conquered territory at the end of the war. A victory for Canada might have included an enlargement of its borders. > > But were victorious as far as surviving an aggressive attack and emerging as a more unified land. I read in Paul Johnson’s _A History of the American People_ that the really important thing about the Treaty of Ghent was that it signaled the U.S. finally accepting Canada’s permanent existence as a British colony separate from the U.S., rather than a bit of unfinished business from the Revolution, to be taken over as soon as the U.S. grew strong enough. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/12 "2010-03-05T18:13:02Z")
I never learned it as an American victory, but I went to a Montessori school. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/13 "2010-03-05T18:35:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I never learned it as an American victory, but I went to a Montessori school. Neither did I, but [I get all my education from youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4&feature=related). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/14 "2010-03-05T18:46:15Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > My own interpretation is that the war was at best a draw for the Americans, the Canadians and the British - with the natives being big losers. When the natives were big losers, the Americans were big winners. The war of 1812 removed the last obstacle to American expansionism. The USA did not win the campaign to conquer Canada, but that was certainly not the only terms the war was fought on. After the war, England stopped kidnapping American sailors, the natives were never again a serious obstacle, and nobody was left willing to stop the American expansion. There’s certainly some definitions of “win” that fit those criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/15 "2010-03-05T18:57:37Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > England stopped kidnapping American sailors, This had nothing to do with the American “victory” in the war. It stopped solely because the Royal Navy stood down a large chunk of its fleet following the defeat of Napoleon and hence no longer suffered from critical manpower shortages. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/16 "2010-03-05T19:02:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I never learned it as an American victory, but I went to a Montessori school. I never learned it as an American victory either, and I went to a public high school in Los Angeles. On the other hand, it wasn’t a loss either. Both sides reached some objectives and failed to reach others. The end was a status quo. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/17 "2010-03-05T19:44:28Z")
There was no official score, but the US can at best be said to have tied the game. Other than the battle of New Orleans, which took place after the war was over, the US lost every major engagement and it was only the defeat of Napoleon that ended the conscriptions that caused the US to declare war. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/18 "2010-03-05T19:56:44Z")
If you declare war, a tie isn’t a win. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/19 "2010-03-05T19:59:44Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > As Camus mentions, Britain/Canada had to give back a large amount of conquered territory at the end of the war. A victory for Canada might have included an enlargement of its borders. > > But were victorious as far as surviving an aggressive attack and emerging as a more unified land. IMO an “enlargement of its borders” would have been a “super-victory.” Repelling invaders, that’s just a plain victory. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424/20 "2010-03-05T20:01:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And actually burning the White House, instead of just telling themselves the fiction that they did, not British troops. You mean Canadians really didn’t do that! :eek: Jeez… I honestly never knew that. :o [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-1812-revisionism/531424.md?page=2)