# War of the Words: Brooke Shields Strikes Back! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673 "2005-07-01T12:54:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/41 "2005-07-03T00:55:22Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Whu-_huh?_ > > I’ve never been able to figure out the difference between IMHO and MPSIMS (and I defy anyone to explain it), so I’ll take your word for it . . . Though I’d have thought if this were going to be ejected from MPSIMS, it would be into Great Debates . . . Remember–They always use the phrase “…rises to the level of a Great Debate.” This may be your clue. I always have a difficult time figuring out a sinker from a riser. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/42 "2005-07-03T02:36:45Z")
> [@Sarah Woodruff](#): > > Indeed he is, but I’m suprised that someone from a national Institute of Psychiatry (American or British or whichever) or a Professor of Psychiatry, or even someone from the American Medical Assoc. didn’t speak out, because doing what Brooke Shields did, and being a psychiatric specialist, would make TC look even more of a tool. Actually, they have. The American Psychiatry Academy and the National Mental Health Association have BOTH released statements condemning Cruise’s rants. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/43 "2005-07-03T05:37:29Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > But that’s not the point; the point is that Tom’s grade school education and Brooke’s degree in French Literature are both beside the point in _their opinions on this subject_. The playing field is basically level here, education-wise, with Brooke taking the advantage in actually having experienced PPD. (emphasis mine) Is it an opinion that “there’s no such thing as a chemical imbalance”? I think most objective debaters would agree that chemical imbalances do exist but may disagree wildly about how to treat them. Is it an opinion that, because Ritalin is used as a street drug, it has no medical use and/or should never be prescribed as a treatment option? Where Tom goes off the rails is in his extreme and unsupported theories that he states as facts or uses faulty logic to back. Brooke Shields, OTOH, by taking medication to deal with PPD, is following a fairly well-established course of treatment that has frequently had positive results. I doubt Mr. Cruise has nearly the data to support his treatment plan. ---
**Author:** ![brachyrhynchos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brachyrhynchos/32/376_2.png) [@brachyrhynchos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brachyrhynchos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/44 "2005-07-03T07:09:11Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, they have. The American Psychiatry Academy and the National Mental Health Association have BOTH released statements condemning Cruise’s rants. The joint statement from the American Psychiatric Association, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, and the National Mental Health Association can be found [here.](http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=June4&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=24249) They come out swinging with their opening salvo: “While we respect the right of individuals to express their own points of view, they are not entitled to their own facts” and end with “It is irresponsible for Mr. Cruise to use his movie publicity tour to promote his own ideological views and deter people with mental illness from getting the care they need.” ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/45 "2005-07-03T07:27:24Z")
You can just sense those doctors itching to give old Tom a good bitch-slapping, can’t you? God, he’s such a @#$$%^& \*&^%$! ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/46 "2005-07-03T08:05:58Z")
I worked with Brooke briefly. She is even more gorgeous in person than on the screen, and she is genuine and kind and very intelligent. Her mother, however, was still in her life back then and was the bitch, alchoholic, stage mother from hell. I mention this as it was about this time that Brooke finally got mom out of her career and moved on. She agonized having to distance herself from her mother and take control of her life. It was hard to watch, but she did it. Tom Cruise made an error in singling out Brooke. She may look like a pretty box of rocks, but trust me…she ain’t. My guess is that Tom is going to regret having singled her out. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/47 "2005-07-03T10:51:31Z")
I don’t think TC is bright enough to strategize in that way. I think he just picked any celeb that he could think of that had stated publicly that they took meds for a pysch disorder. I think that all of this stuff comes from his sister’s (his new publicist) “handling” of him–makes me wonder what other craziness never made it into the news lo, these many years. (remember when he refused to give interviews? He could do that again, to my mind…) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/48 "2005-07-03T14:43:18Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Now, are you saying they’re dumber than they appear? Cause The Rock seems quite intelligent to me, in spite of all the football player brawn. No my dear, exactly the opposite. They are both thoughtful articulate interesting intelligent folk. Which was my point in making the comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/49 "2005-07-03T21:50:18Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > No my dear, exactly the opposite. They are both thoughtful articulate interesting intelligent folk. Which was my point in making the comparisons. But _her_ point is that is how they (or the Rock at least) _do_ appear: as rather intelligent, actually. And I agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/50 "2005-07-04T00:24:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by featherlou > But that’s not the point; the point is that Tom’s grade school education and Brooke’s degree in French Literature are both beside the point in their opinions on this subject. The playing field is basically level here, education-wise, with Brooke taking the advantage in actually having experienced PPD. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Is it an opinion that “there’s no such thing as a chemical imbalance”? I think most objective debaters would agree that chemical imbalances do exist but may disagree wildly about how to treat them. Is it an opinion that, because Ritalin is used as a street drug, it has no medical use and/or should never be prescribed as a treatment option? Where Tom goes off the rails is in his extreme and unsupported theories that he states as facts or uses faulty logic to back. > > Brooke Shields, OTOH, by taking medication to deal with PPD, is following a fairly well-established course of treatment that has frequently had positive results. I doubt Mr. Cruise has nearly the data to support his treatment plan. And this has what to do with their education, which is what my post was about? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/51 "2005-07-04T01:07:12Z")
Aiieeee. Let **featherlou** answer for herself, so we are all clear. And if I did misunderstand, please accept my apologies in advance. 🙂 I saw War Of The Worlds this afternoon and kept thinking about this thread… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/52 "2005-07-04T01:12:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Might I ask you how many celebrities you have spent time with when the cameras are not turned on? I’m guessing not nearly as many as I have. People say the things that will serve them best when the camera is turned on. It is not always representative of who they truly are, or how they truly feel. I will defer to your estimate that you have spent private time with more celebrities than I have. I _have_ spent enough time with people who are not reading scripts to know that an interview _persona_ differs from a stage _persona_ and both differ from the real person. OTOH, if Tom Cruise has been _following directions_ to make himself look like a dumb kid with a nothing but pretty face and an ability to read a prompter for nearly twenty years, then I would say he truly is as dumb as he portrays himself. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/53 "2005-07-04T01:26:41Z")
Readily agreed. The boy’s a nitwit. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/54 "2005-07-04T03:08:09Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > And this has what to do with their education, which is what my post was about? You said their education had nothing to do with the validity of their opinions. I was reminding you that this was not a matter of opinion, it was a question of scientific fact. Tom Cruise claimed to be educated about psychology, but clearly he is not, and Brooke Shields is. That’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/55 "2005-07-04T14:03:44Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You said their education had nothing to do with the validity of their opinions. I was reminding you that this was not a matter of opinion, it was a question of scientific fact. Tom Cruise claimed to be educated about psychology, but clearly he is not, and Brooke Shields is. That’s my point. Actually, I said their education has nothing to do with the validity of their opinions _on this subject_. I would defer to Brooke’s opinions on French Literature with no quibbles at all. Taking medication for PPD doesn’t give her an education in psychology any more than it does for the rest of us. And yes, Tom is talking out of his ass, but his high school education (probably) has nothing to do with that. **Cartooniverse** , for clarification, when you said they were commonly known as a certain intelligence, I didn’t know if you meant they were commonly thought of as dumb or bright, because I thought The Rock was pretty bright, but I am realizing more every day that I don’t think like most people. I didn’t have an opinion on Christie Brinkley. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/56 "2005-07-04T14:25:48Z")
> [@](#): > > OTOH, if Tom Cruise has been following directions to make himself look like a dumb kid with a nothing but pretty face and an ability to read a prompter for nearly twenty years, then I would say he truly is as dumb as he portrays himself. Cruise fired his longtime publicist about a year ago and replaced him with his own sister. A speculation, but Cruises’s original publicist might have reigned him in by now while his sister apparently can’t or won’t control her brother. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/57 "2005-07-04T15:19:13Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > **Cartooniverse** , for clarification, when you said they were commonly known as a certain intelligence, I didn’t know if you meant they were commonly thought of as dumb or bright, because I thought The Rock was pretty bright, but I am realizing more every day that I don’t think like most people. I didn’t have an opinion on Christie Brinkley. Both of them are, in fact, darned bright people. Articulate, thoughtful…nice to be around. Not only was Mr. Johnson a good conversationalist and pretty genteel in his demeanor ( as well as seemingl well-read ), but he did something when he thought nobody was watching that impressed me. We worked with him the day of a wrestling event in Rhode Island. The arena was slowly being crowded with all of the wrestlers who were “working” that evening. They were, almost to the last, a crude buffoonish group. Dwayne Johnson spent quite a lot of of time sitting next to a very old gentleman who was off to one side, listening. Not talking. Attentive and polite. Clearly whoever this man was, he was deserving of respect and attention. Most larger-than-life people I’ve been around always have something to say but rarely have some time to listen. I already had a good solid impression of the man, but he wasn’t putting on a show for anyone- there was no crew or camera around. I was walking through the arena a few times, without my Steadicam, just sizing up where I might want to shoot. He had no clue I was around. Ms. Brinkley… ahh, well. I was her bodyguard one night for about 5 hours. She’d just met Billy Joel and showed up unannouced on the set of one of his music videos. The producer ( a good friend ) grabbed me and stood me next to her and introduced us, saying " This is Cartooniverse. He will NOT leave your side until you leave, okay Christie?? " They hadn’t arranged for real security, as this was a surprise visit. She has a great eye for photography. ( Not always the case with models, interestingly ). Good sense of humor, polite and well-spoken. I was completely charmed. I didn’t, and don’t find her especially sexy or anything but she made a heck of an impression that evening. The hug of thanks at the end of my day of work didn’t hurt either. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/58 "2005-07-04T15:49:39Z")
A similar story on stereotyping. Brainiac4 spent some time working in entertainment journalism (of a sort). One of his staffers went out to interview Dave Mustaine, of Megadeth. Now, I have a preconcieved notion of heavy metal musicians, so I find this story funny simply because it contradicts my previous ideas. The interviewer asked “What are you reading now.” Mr. Mustaine answered that he was currently reading Pilgrim’s Progress after it had been recommended by some other heavy metal musician neither Brainiac4 or I can remember. He was enjoying the book. I still doubt Mr. Cruise has undertaken a serious non-biased study of psychiatry and psychiatric medications. I’ve no doubt he has been exposed to Scientology’s take on the subject much like some Fundamentalists have studied and understand evilution. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/59 "2005-07-04T19:43:41Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > \I still doubt Mr. Cruise has undertaken a serious non-biased study of psychiatry and psychiatric medications. I’ve no doubt he has been exposed to Scientology’s take on the subject much like some Fundamentalists have studied and understand evilution. _That_ I can agree on. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673/60 "2005-07-04T20:10:31Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Actually, I said their education has nothing to do with the validity of their opinions _on this subject_ And _my_ point is that Brooke’s chemical imbalance is not a matter of opinion. I’m sure it could have been proven that her brain chemistry was off when she had PPD. > [@](#): > > I would defer to Brooke’s opinions on French Literature with no quibbles at all. Taking medication for PPD doesn’t give her an education in psychology any more than it does for the rest of us. And yes, Tom is talking out of his ass, but his high school education (probably) has nothing to do with that. It does indeed. Tom Cruise, due to his lack of education, probably does not have a rigorous attitude towards science or research. Without some basic knowledge in place, I doubt he could understand how psychiatric medications work in the brain, whereas Brooke Shields, a Princeton grad, probably does. I have degrees in business, English, and teaching, not medicine, but I am able to understand the basic workings of any meds I take due to my education. Some of it is just being highly literate and versed in critical thinking; Tom Cruise was very late in learning to read due to his dyslexia, and clearly his critical thinking faculties aren’t too well-developed either. I know the argument that having a college education, let alone an Ivy League degree, does not mean a person is more intelligent or insightful. However, I do think higher education fosters a more well-rounded base of knowledge, requires a lot of reading, research and analysis, and an ability to decode difficult and dense texts. At least, my degrees required this. Tom doesn’t have these skills or tools at hand to help him understand psychiatry. Brooke Shields, even though her degree is not in psychology, probably read and researched her medical condition and treatments and thus has a much better understanding about how the human brain works, and about PPD and depression in general, than Cruise does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-of-the-words-brooke-shields-strikes-back/310673.md?page=4)