# War on Ashcroft **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340 "2003-02-25T04:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/41 "2003-02-25T21:28:32Z")
Exactly. The same idea applies to interdicting drugs before they enter the US, or taking out pot farms. The DEA knows that they are not going to be able to keep all illegal drugs out of the country. They stop what they can to make it harder and more expensive for users to use them. In my college days, I too was pretty good at crafting implements to use the demon weed. There’s no way to stop everybody from being able to buy or build drug paraphernalia. However, the DEA can, and as long as drugs are illegal _should_ try to do what they can to make it harder. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/42 "2003-02-25T21:30:14Z")
That ‘exactly’ was referring to **december’s** post, of course. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/43 "2003-02-25T21:52:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\*I find this amusing because soda and beer cans can be used to make pipes. Cigarettes can be emptied out and filled with marijuana. Ball point pens can be used to snort cocaine. See, you just listed a bunch of drug paraphenalia without even trying to 🙂 > . \*\* I bow to your expertise. It’s wonderful that the Straight Dope includes posters experienced in so many diverse areas. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/44 "2003-02-25T21:57:01Z")
First of all, let’s look at some cites. [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.com/news/876686.asp?cp1=1). for what it is worth, or the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62054-2003Feb24.html). Now some quotes: > [@](#): > > Federal authorities charged 55 people Monday with trafficking in illegal drug paraphernalia from coast to coast,… > [@](#): > > Federal law makes it a crime to sell products mainly intended for the use of illegal drugs, including such things as bongs, marijuana pipes, “roach” clips, miniature spoons and scales. > [@](#): > > Federal law expressly prohibits the sale or importation of water pipes, bongs, marijuana pipes, cocaine freebase kits and crack pipes. Distributors indicted yesterday also allegedly marketed items to drug dealers, including scales and substances used to dilute raw narcotics, as well as products intended to defeat drug tests. > [@](#): > > In addition to raiding warehouses and head shops, federal agents led by the Drug Enforcement Administration disabled a dozen Web sites > [@](#): > > The investigation was led by the Drug Enforcement Administration along with the U.S. Marshals, Secret Service, Customs Service and Postal Inspection Service. Yes, drug paraphenalia is illegal and it has been for some time. No, Ashcroft did not write this law. The people enforcing these laws are the people whose job it is to enforce these laws, not hunt terrorists, although the allocation of resources argument is the best one I’ve heard on this issue. From what I’ve seen, rolling papers are not targeted, which will make a friend of mine very happy since he rolls his own legit tobacco (it doesn’t stink). **belladonna** ’s post sums it up. EVERYONE knows it is sold for illegal purposes (nine times out of ten), but the “wink, wink” defense that has been accepted in years past was tacit approval of the sale of these items, which was tacit approval of the use of these items. **binarydrone** is perfectly right, in my opinion, this HAS been a social contract to allow it. And that social contract is now being broken. Personally, I think marijuana should be legalized. It just hasn’t been (alcohol lobby, IMO). I think there should have been warning for this change in enforcement, a grace period, if you will, due to this 180 degree shift. To have a cop walk by a head shop for the last thirty years with no problem, then DEA arresting you the next day SUCKS! Buying an everyday article and misusing it for drugs does not give as much money to the drug pushers and growers and marketers and distributers. And for those of you who have never seen South Park, **Hmmm, Drugs are bad, m’kay?** in no way means you can’t debate the issue, what are you, on drugs? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/45 "2003-02-25T21:59:45Z")
> [@](#): > > All these products sell better because of their convenience. It stands to reason that more people will do drugs if it’s more convenient. Counterwise, less convenience ought to reduce sales of drugs. If a stoner wants to toke off a bong, and dosent have a bong, they will make a bong. It wont matter if there is no head shop to buy it from. Lack of convenience wont lead to lack of taking. To quote Denis Leary, Marijuana dosent lead to hard drugs, it leads to carpentry. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/46 "2003-02-25T22:14:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > **If a stoner wants to toke off a bong, and dosent have a bong, they will make a bong. It wont matter if there is no head shop to buy it from.** Exactly. And according to the Washington Post article I cited earlier, Ashcroft believes the drug paraphernalia business to be a billion-dollar business. So basically, he’s aiming to take a billion dollars out of the economy, plus the law enforcement overhead, to make a move that won’t reduce illegal drug use at all. What a genius. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/47 "2003-02-25T22:14:44Z")
I can’t even see how anti-parapharnalia laws make it harder to smoke pot. It would take me an hour to drive across town to buy a bong. I could make my own in ten minutes. I could roll up a joint even quicker. Ban rolling papers? No problem. Any kind of paper will work in a pinch. One time in high school, I rolled a joint out of a page from a phone book. You also have to consider the likely target of such legislation. Does somebody wanting to try pot for the first time go and purchase a $100 glass bong? Of course not. He’ll buy a pack of rolling papers or empty the tobacco out of a cigarette and replace it with pot. Most of the very casual smokers I know don’t even use bongs. Think about it. If you only smoke pot once every three months, do you want something illegal hanging around your house 24/7 ?Of course not. You buy a blunt the night you smoke and be done with it. It seems that the only people affected by this law are the the folks who smoke frequently, and I really can’t see how an obstacle this minor could result in even a slight impedement of their habits. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/48 "2003-02-25T22:28:15Z")
I’m starting to think that we should just ban everything. It’ll do just as much good, and it’s a lot easier to accomplish than allowing everything. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/49 "2003-02-25T22:39:50Z")
Some laws just aren’t worth enforcing. For instance, a couple of years ago, here in Atlanta, the city police carried out a series of daring raids on shops that sold dildoes and vibrators, which are illegal in Georgia (I’m not making this up). Yet there’s no evidence that the tragically high masturbation rate went down. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/50 "2003-02-25T22:50:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I bow to your expertise. It’s wonderful that the Straight Dope includes posters experienced in so many diverse areas. 🙂 \*\* “Experience is the name we give to our mistakes” Oscar Wilde ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/51 "2003-02-25T23:15:24Z")
Man oh man I’ve got to get out of this country… ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/52 "2003-02-25T23:24:27Z")
Drugs are bad[sup]1[/sup]. [sub]FN 1: Except the dozens of uppers, downers, happy, and sleepy pills you get from your doctor. Oh, and alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, diet pills, and most importantly, mysterious supplement pills with confusing claims on the bottles. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/53 "2003-02-25T23:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baldwin \* > \*\*Some laws just aren’t worth enforcing. For instance, a couple of years ago, here in Atlanta, the city police carried out a series of daring raids on shops that sold dildoes and vibrators, which are illegal in Georgia (I’m not making this up). Yet there’s no evidence that the tragically high masturbation rate went down. \*\* This is an excellent point, and a wonderful comparison. Damn funny, too. ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/54 "2003-02-26T00:10:28Z")
If you’ve had a scrip filled lately at Revco, remember to sign here that you won’t be ABUSING the drugs you were prescribed by a licensed physician. So, armed with this powerful legislation measure to prevent abuse, we will prob all soon be forced to sign for each and every item that we purchase, will be used for lawful purposes only. I feel much safer knowing that even terrorist must sign for gallon of gasoline. Lettuce - xxxxxx Hamburger - xxxxxx Ketchup - xxxxxxx Chips - xxxxx Thumbtacks - (Mr. Fed: "Mr. x didn’t sign this line - we better check him out asap) Hammer - (Mr. Fed: "It looks like he’s trying to hide something) Prince Edward in the Can - xxxxx JOB papers - (Mr. Fed: He’s a hardcore pusher and a user - Let’s bookem and confiscate all suspected associated items and his house and dog and freeze his assets and render him homeless - I mean harmless) Gasoline can - xxxxx 1-gal Gasoline - (Mr. Fed: Looks like he forgot to sign for the petrol - must have been in a hurry) Bic Lighter - xxxxx That is how much common sense THEY use. It’s all legal - it just depends on how it is used ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/55 "2003-02-26T01:35:02Z")
You know the best thing about Republicans? They’re _pro-freedom_. Seriously, I think that every time a story like this makes headlines with Ashcroft’s name in it, it gives those in the party with Libertarian leanings one more reason to jump ship to a third party, or just not bother showing up to vote at all. In an election as close as this one is likely to be, it might be enough for Bush to lose unambiguously this time. In the meantime, though, remember that every time you buy a piece of phatty glass in the Phish parking lot, a terrorist kills a kitten. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/56 "2003-02-26T02:25:18Z")
Game! Set! Match! Congratulations Dr J LMAO ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/57 "2003-02-26T02:51:11Z")
I personally can make a _tobacco_ pipe with a pencil, a little aluminum foil (a gum wrapper will do nicely), and a piece of fresh fruit (I prefer apples or oranges). Man, I’m gonna miss all that stuff when it gets banned. Mods, would it be inappropriate to describe how to do it? It would add a delightfully fruity taste to one’s evening tobacco puffing. ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/58 "2003-02-26T04:05:16Z")
Vibrators are illegal in Georgia? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/59 "2003-02-26T05:40:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by THespos \* > \*\*So basically, he’s aiming to take a billion dollars out of the economy, plus the law enforcement overhead, to make a move that won’t reduce illegal drug use at all. What a genius. \*\* Actually, I think he intends for the money that would go to paraphernelia to be spent on post-toke snacks, thus diverting over a billion dollars into the coffers of the massive Potato Chip/Cheez Puff/Nacho cartels. How much you want to bet that Ashcroft recently invested in Frito Lay? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340/60 "2003-02-26T06:00:26Z")
John Ashcroft needs to go smoke a bowl and then play Grand Theft Auto: Vice City with Joe Lieberman for a good solid afternoon. The world would be a much happier place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-ashcroft/157340.md?page=2)