# War on drugs.... pointless? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511 "2003-02-12T03:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/41 "2003-02-13T04:14:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*Their mission is similar. Prevent unauthorized people and material from entering the country. After all, if someone can smuggle a truckload of coke into the USA, it can’t be that hard to smuggle a truckload of VX nerve gas. > \*\* Of course local marihuana growers enter this scenario. :rolleyes: I see you ignore the continued efforts of the federal government to even arrest medical marihuana growers that are not smuggling anything. And you have not noticed that I was not talking about smuggling at the border, I agree on interdiction there. (However, even there, there are other tragic results: recently two military helicopters and their crew were lost by doing what local authorities should have been doing: drug patrol (Nobody shot at the helicopters BTW)) Locally this waste of manpower is still idiotic in light of our current situation: were are our priorities? Why not train dogs to smell for traces of deadly gases instead of marihuana then? Think also on all the technology that is used to find local growers also. Think of the time that is wasted in this hour of need. Realize that this new reason on why to drop the WoD is being ignored on top of all the other points the pro-legalization crowd has put forward for ages. I was on the fence on this legalization thing but the lack of any effort to deal with the harmful effects of the WoD, together now with the idiocy of ignoring a waste of resources that would be useful in this war on terror, has convinced me to say: ENOUGH. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/42 "2003-02-13T05:13:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creative\_Munster \* > \*\*I doubt it is at a level to merit coverage. I can buy a gallon of vodka for $10.00 where I live. That’s pretty damn cheap. If you have statistics that show that illegal alcohol production is prevalent, please provide them. Otherwise, it is just an almost irrelevant sidenote. \*\* [http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/snap2001.htm](http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/snap2001.htm) > [@](#): > > Also in FY99, ATF investigated 106 illegal alcohol and tobacco diversion cases resulting in the seizure of nearly $1.4 million in assets. ATF was the lead agency in an investigation that resulted in a payment of $10 million to the Treasury Asset Forfeiture Fund. Granted, I couldn’t find much after a quick search. But don’t let that stop you from running your ass off if you ever see a still in the woods. There are localities that do have a lot of moonshine production. People make their living off of it. ---
**Author:** ![hightechburrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@hightechburrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hightechburrito)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/43 "2003-02-13T06:08:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > **You can drone about about “freedom” and “individual choice”, but if someone uses his “right” to take an illegal drug, gets addicted and burgles your house for goods to sell, you’re going to wish he didn’t have that "freedom."** And remember, if this burglar’s drug of choice was legal, he wouldn’t _need_ to steal to support his habit, because drugs would be cheap enough for him to buy them without stealing. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/44 "2003-02-13T06:09:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by I Know Lots_ > You moan about how the governments who make this pampered lifestyle possible deny you one single pleasure- illegal drugs (something they are doing for your own good anyway, not that you appreciate that). Well, boo hoo. It’s time to grow up. You can live without drugs. So do it. Tell that to the tens of thousands of non violent drug offenders currently languishing in our jail cells :rolleyes: Besides, when you analyse it, there are very few things on earth we _can’t_ live without. That doesn’t mean we can’t complain when we can’t get it. We can live without TV but if it were illegalised tomorrow I bet you’d bitch just as loudly as the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/45 "2003-02-13T06:13:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Making drugs illegal, has made the mafia much richer, and given them a very good source of income for the past 90 years. It has also given the police, attorneys, judges, prison guards a lot of jobs, but those are the only “pluses” or “benefits” that I can see. > \*\* That’s not a benefit. Either police and lawyers are being pulled away from legitimate cases, hurting society overall, or extra ones are being hired to do something that only hurts society. It may be a benefit to them, but not to society - it doesn’t benefit us to hire someone to do something that effectively has no positive effect on society, you might as well pay them 50k a year to stare at a wall. It also introduces lots of corruption into the system. Drugs and police powers related to drugs increase the ability for a crooked cop to play games with people. It’s easy to plant weed on someone’s car, for example, and a lot of unreasonable searches can be justified by saying they suspected drugs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/46 "2003-02-13T06:20:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > You can drone about about “freedom” and “individual choice”, but if someone uses his “right” to take an illegal drug, gets addicted and burgles your house for goods to sell, you’re going to wish he didn’t have that “freedom.” Is anyone here advocating legalizing burglary? > [@](#): > > Later I shall use my free choice to get drunk and drive my car round your neighbourhood all night. And if those awful nanny-state goons they call the “police” show up, well, they’re just infringing on my individual right to do incredibly stupid things over and over and over again. Fascists! But will the police arrest you for possession or consumption of alcohol? No, they’ll arrest you for drunk driving. See, we _can_ deal with the bad consequences of drugs, without putting people in jail for using drugs but actually doing anything to infringe on the rights of other people. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/47 "2003-02-13T06:23:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > > * * * > > I think what this rather adolescent “legalize drugs, man” argument boils down to is people behaving like spoilt children. Look at this thread- you are all, like me, Westerners living in luxury and safety, overwhelmed by consumer goods that most people in this world would never dream of, and with more food than it is physically possible to eat. And what do you choose to talk about? You moan about how the governments who make this pampered lifestyle possible deny you one single pleasure- illegal drugs (something they are doing for your own good anyway, not that you appreciate that). Well, boo hoo. It’s time to grow up. You can live without drugs. So do it. > \*\* The logic of that last paragraph can apply to any government imposition (that’s a nicer word than oppression) on freedom. “Quit whining about your lost rights of free speech, you have a good life here, and anyway, the government is doing it for your own good, all that seditious talk is harmful to society…” Basically, what you said was “Quit whining, the government can fuck you any way it wants because you have nice doodads and lots of food, you’re all a bunch of spoiled kids.” Unfortunately, it’s this logic, and this willingness to impose one’s will on society through government, that created this whole situation. Feel free to disagree with me, and tell me why your logic wouldn’t apply to lost freedom of speech, for example. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/48 "2003-02-13T06:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > \*\*You are naive, **Mr2001**. A lot of people do need a “nanny state” telling them what to do. This is because a lot of people are stupid, self-interested and/or corrupt, and should not be allowed to make their own decisions. \*\* Stalinist logic. I’m sure you grew up thinking you were so much smarter than everyone, and things would be just perfect if only you were in charge, and it created this idea in you that society couldn’t possibly function without a central authority dictating it. Well, it’s your opinion to hold - and I used to share the same sentiment, until I realized that my current set of views made more sense. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Otherwise there would be no need for a state to exist at all. \*\* Really? States only exist to dictate what people should do? They’re not there, to say, protect people’s rights? > [@](#): > > \*\* > You can drone about about “freedom” and “individual choice”, but if someone uses his “right” to take an illegal drug, gets addicted and burgles your house for goods to sell, you’re going to wish he didn’t have that “freedom.” \*\* Yeah, you’re right. If someone comes and robs my house, I’m not going to find their violating my rights to be the problem, I’m going to find their right not to have some storm troopers bust into their house at 4am problematic. The issue is that the guy robbed my house, not that he took drugs. > [@](#): > > \*\* > It may sound good in the seminar room or the message board, but out in the wacky world of real life (look out the window, there it is), academic talk of unlimited personal choice just doesn’t wash. \*\* We can’t be having those rascally ideas about freedom getting around the real world, there’d be utter chaos. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Later I shall use my free choice to get drunk and drive my car round your neighbourhood all night. \*\* The act of getting drunk hurts no one. The act of doing negligent things that could hurt people is taking an action that will possibly harm people. Again, you’re confusing the action with the drugs. If I get high and murder someone, is the problem that I murdered someone, or that I got high? In case you think I’m some sort of angry pothead, not at all. I hate drugs, and generally dislike people that use them, especially those who use them excessively. But I’m against taking my personal distaste of drug users and trying to force my view on other people at gunpoint through a central authority. You obviously don’t have that inhibition. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And if those awful nanny-state goons they call the “police” show up, well, they’re just infringing on my individual right to do incredibly stupid things over and over and over again. Fascists! \*\* You seem to be implying that we’re using the logic that ANY police interaction with people is an unfair imposition of force. So, if I’m, say, murdering people, and police come, they must be violating my rights! It’s a straw man. You’re putting up situations in which one person is using force against someone else in a way that violates that person’s rights, and then associating those situations with drugs to make them seem harmful by association - unless, perhaps, you’re asserting that taking drugs automatically makes one do harmful things. You haven’t even addressed the situation of people responsibly using drugs - all you’re doing is using scare tactics by naming random crimes and then associating them with drug use to demonify the drugs by association. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/49 "2003-02-13T06:43:49Z")
Marijuana can cause cancer, so its not really a truly safe drug. [http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9808/18/marijuana.cancer/](http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9808/18/marijuana.cancer/) Suppose 2 people watch a car wreck, one is Amish and the other is an individual in a technocracy. The Amish person’s response might be “this is why we should steer clear of technology” the person living in a technocracy would, on the other hand, try to discover safer ways of driving. While the Amish person uses this death too further his cause, the individual in a technocracy would invent airbags, traffic lights, crumple zones, and other safety measures. But there would still be tens of thousands of deaths a year. Its all a matter of what your motivation is. If you want drugs to be illegal its not hard finding excuses to keep them illegal. Our current drug war is largely fought on the former idea, that any bad consequences of drug use is due entirely to the drugs themselves, not ignorance or the emotional stability or mental competency of the user. In a way, politicians & soccer mom’s want people’s lives to be destroyed, where else would they get the justification to keep their war going without victims to hold up as examples? I know i will catch flac for this, but i know alot of steroid users. Some of them fit the stereotypes of muscular, beliggerent bouncers. However most are just everyday people. these people know more about how these drugs work, how the side effects work, what causes the effects, how to avoid them, etc. than 99% of politicians, judges, prosecutors, police officers, everyday people and probably a good deal of healthcare professionals. These people are among the most well-educated people alive on this subject, yet their say has no power against the say of soccer moms who have grown up on a diet of stereotypes or politicians who only want to get re-elected or appear hard on something scary. The fact that these drugs are illegal doesn’t bother me as much as the fact that the users are much more educated than their persecutors and that isn’t even a consideration when it comes to making policy. Why should the ignorant & overemotional call all the shots? I personally think drugs should have a scale rating of how dangerous they are, and people should have easier access to info on how to use them responsibly & safely. Not all ‘drugs’ are the same, there are hundreds of them, and an endless supply of personalities that use them. The idea that all drug problems would go away with decriminalization or legalization is a myth, the wrong people would use the wrong drugs in the wrong ways and peoples lives would still be injured or destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/50 "2003-02-13T11:57:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Happyjoelucky \* > \*\*In all honesty there seems to be some very compelling arguments as to why drugs should be legalized, but, and you knew there was going to be a but, aren’t they just speculation. > We don’t really know what would happen if we legalized drugs do we? > There must be consequences that we can’t even begin to imagine. Can it get completely out of control and if it does can we go back? \*\* Well a consequence that we can be fairly sure of is that farmers in Colombia wouldn’t have to join FARC for employment because the US planes weren’t spraying defoliant killing their banana and coca cash crops. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/51 "2003-02-13T12:12:20Z")
I Know Lots: I’d like to hear how you justify the oppression of third world farmers in the name of the drug war. Is my desire to limit their oppression entirely juvenile and selfish? Am I just being a spoiled child born of a capitalist economy when I say that farmers in Colombia should have the right to grow whatever they like because the poverty there is so endemic that they should make a buck any way they can, that they may feed their families? I like your tactics of trying to make people feel guilty for disagreeing with you. However, us spoiled children are too mature to fall for it when people call us names to get us to change our viewpoints. Look up the term “Cost/benefit analysis” and then come back and talk to us about this situation. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Consuela\_Bobuela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Consuela\_Bobuela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consuela_Bobuela)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/52 "2003-02-13T12:46:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > \*\*You are naive, **Mr2001**. A lot of people do need a “nanny state” telling them what to do. This is because a lot of people are stupid, self-interested and/or corrupt, and should not be allowed to make their own decisions. Otherwise there would be no need for a state to exist at all. You can drone about about “freedom” and “individual choice”, but if someone uses his “right” to take an illegal drug, gets addicted and burgles your house for goods to sell, you’re going to wish he didn’t have that “freedom.” It may sound good in the seminar room or the message board, but out in the wacky world of real life (look out the window, there it is), academic talk of unlimited personal choice just doesn’t wash. > > \*\* You know, IKL, stupid, self interested people make decisions every day and manage not to kill people. Some even manage not to kill themselves. Do you suggest we have government “nannies” go house to house and look in kitchens for beer and potato chips and ship them off to jail lest they get fat and lazy? Or check the medicine cabinet to make sure they’re not taking too many tylenols or sudafeds? What’s in your medicine cabinet? Do you drink coffee? Do you eat bacon? Better be careful, they may come after you next. I’m glad I don’t live in your world IKL, and I hope I never do, ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/53 "2003-02-13T13:13:14Z")
> [@](#): > > if someone uses his “right” to take an illegal drug, gets addicted and burgles your house for goods to sell, you’re going to wish he didn’t have that “freedom.” Indeed, I would wish he/she could buy a 3 quid bag from the NHS rather than the same bag for 60 quid (possibly mixed with lethal impurities). If drug dealers are the enemies in the drugs war, then one should remember that the first rule of war is always to do what your enemy least wants you to do. Drugs can be dangerous and lethal. Drugs can ruin your life through debt and addiction, or through long term effects on body and brain. Drugs can have undiscovered side-effects which leave you with a crippling disease when you are still young. The point, however, is that the only person whose business that is, is yours. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/54 "2003-02-13T14:33:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > \*\*Well a consequence that we can be fairly sure of is that farmers in Colombia wouldn’t have to join FARC for employment because the US planes weren’t spraying defoliant killing their banana and coca cash crops. > Erek \*\* I agree! The illegalization of drugs has created a complete parallel criminal government in Colombia. Now THAT is an enormous source of human suffering. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/55 "2003-02-13T15:13:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > Marijuana can cause cancer, so its not really a truly safe drug. I’d like to hear your opinions on drugs that are released on the open market. Are they “truly safe”? > [@](#): > > The idea that all drug problems would go away with decriminalization or legalization is a myth, the wrong people would use the wrong drugs in the wrong ways and peoples lives would still be injured or destroyed. Maybe I don’t get out a lot but I haven’t heard people saying that legalization is the end of drug problems. It is the beginning of fixing them, perhaps, and it seems that the costs to society are less when 1. drugs are cheaper, 2. tax on drugs helps subsidize health programs for addicts, and 3. the incentive to manufacture or distribute illegally virtually disappears, though this won’t take the drugs out of the criminal, it will take the criminals out of drugs. (3) is the catch, though. If we legalize it but maintain significant roadblocks to production or distribution then there will still be crime centered around its production and distribution. I largely suspect this will be the biggest hurdle to face, as it will be legalized but severely regulated, making it still hard to get (almost a de facto ban on consumption or production) and thus still worth having a black market for. Then the pro-ban camp will just say, “See?” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/56 "2003-02-13T16:11:03Z")
The one flaw that I see in most threads about legalization is that the discussion always seems centred on ‘recreational’ drugs. Problems, maybe equal to or greater than recreational drugs exist. Nobody seems to ever mention the cost of prescription drugs and the problems those high costs seem have. This article in today’s [Dallas Morning News](http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stories/021303dnmetmentallyill.57cd7.html) (registration is needed) shows the problems that high cost of legal drugs cause. > [@](#): > > But the reason behind about 30 arrests and more than a dozen convictions doesn’t show up in police reports and court files kept on the 45-year-old grandmother. Her problem? She can’t afford the prescribed medications that control her manic episodes and keep her out of jail. > > And neither can the health-care agencies that provide treatment for the poor. I challenge anybody to get a positive out of that. At least if there were legalized ‘recreational’ drugs, the revenue from that _could_ be used to help people like Denise Henley, whose major crime is to be poor and mentally ill. There is a whole mess of problems with prescription drug costs and health care in general. The government says they want to help but they have no money. How many billions would be available if the WoD ended today? From [this story](http://www.motherjones.com/prisons/investment.html): > [@](#): > > Today, we spend almost $20 billion a year at the federal level, with the states spending at least that much again. In 1980, the federal government arrested a few hundred thousand people on drug charges; today we arrest 1.6 million people a year for drug offenses. Yet we still have a drug problem. Should we continue until the federal government spends $40 billion and arrests 3.2 million people a year for drugs? What about $80 billion and 6.4 million arrests? If the WoD ends today that frees up roughly $40 billion, also removes the cost of incarcerating non-violent drug offenders. Plus factor in the revenue from taxing the sale of legalized marijuana, and all of a sudden many of our most vexing problems seem much more manageable. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/57 "2003-02-13T17:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*[http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/snap2001.htm](http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/snap2001.htm) > Granted, I couldn’t find much after a quick search. But don’t let that stop you from running your ass off if you ever see a still in the woods. > > There are localities that do have a lot of moonshine production. People make their living off of it. \*\* Those numbers were said to be related to “diversion cases”, though; obviously, people will still attempt to steal valuable goods and resell them for profit. From the context, it doesn’t appear that any of the crime in question involved illegal _production_ of alcohol or tobacco – which, quite frankly, probably is beneath the media radar for a reason. Modern-day moonshiners produce moonshine because people like buying moonshine, because they like the element of risk, because its been romanticized, etc. Since alcohol is available quite cheaply on the open market, there’s little economic incentive to produce it illegally, except as a “boutique item”. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/58 "2003-02-13T17:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > \*\*Marijuana can cause cancer, so its not really a truly safe drug. > > [http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9808/18/marijuana.cancer/](http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9808/18/marijuana.cancer/) > > \*\* Yes, in theory it can – inhaling burning plant matter probably isn’t particularly healthy for you. However, there has yet to be a single documented case of lung cancer occuring in an exclusive pot-smoker; you’ll find that there are plenty of folks who smoke cigarettes daily, and pot on occasion. This makes it far more difficult to study with any amount of accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/59 "2003-02-13T18:29:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > \*\* > Murder has been illegal for centuries, and yet… gasp… _it still happens!_ Same with robbery. And rape. And bar brawls. And tax dodging. And traffic offences. And late library books. Isn’t it about time that our awful, misguided authorities stopped trying to eradicate these so-called “crimes”? After all, they have been entirely unsuccessful in their attempts to do so. > \*\* I believe that a basic premise of the pro-legalization line of thought is tha these crimes all have victims. Smoking a joint seems a personal choice that doesn’t infringe on anothers right, therefore victimless. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I Know Lots \* > \*\* > Wiping out any evil is impossible. But it can be limited through law enforcement. > \*\* Law enforcement isn’t limiting drug use. Therefore drug use isn’t evil. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511/60 "2003-02-13T19:22:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by occ \* > **Those numbers were said to be related to “diversion cases”, though; obviously, people will still attempt to steal valuable goods and resell them for profit.** So which is it, is it cheap or is it valuable? > [@](#): > > From the context, it doesn’t appear that any of the crime in question involved illegal _production_ of alcohol or tobacco – which, quite frankly, probably is beneath the media radar for a reason. Well I read an article in Penthouse a few months ago discussing recent efforts by law enforcement to crack down on moonshining because of the violence and territorial issues associated with it, and how the people who were reporting these crimes were now sorry they had done so because it didn’t improve anything. I would have said that already but I am rather doubtful anyone here considers Penthouse a credible source. I would have cited my mother who used to live in such areas only a few years ago, but the plural of anecdote is not data. I’m trying to find information. All of this is mostly irrelevant: there are moonshiners, it is illegal, and people buy it anyway, even though there is a legal market for it. That is pretty much my only point, I don’t really care to ascribe any motivations to people nor do I feel an urge to explain them away. Fact is, alcohol is technically legal, but that doesn’t stop it from being on a black market. There _are_ roadblocks to consumption, production, and distribution in place for alcohol a whole lot more than for tea or other widgets. > [@](#): > > Since alcohol is available quite cheaply on the open market, there’s little economic incentive to produce it illegally, except as a “boutique item”. I don’t care if people run cars with it or tie ribbons on the jugs. The point is: there _is_ economic incentive and people do it and it is illegal. The same thing _will_ happen to overregulated drugs should they become legalized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-on-drugs-pointless/154511.md?page=4)