# War Plans Signal Screwup- The Atlantic is publishing the full messages **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 26, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136 "2025-03-26T12:54:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/81 "2025-03-26T19:10:45Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I think it’s obvious they planned to use Signal instead of approved channels so they could get around data retention policies and hide their actions from any current or future investigations. I read somewhere that it’s specifically called for in the Project 2025 plan. I won’t say that for sure, though, without verifying for myself — I’m skimming through an **[online copy](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/project_2025_original1.pdf)** and will report again if I find something relevant. (But it’ll be a while. This fucker is like 900 pages.) (But it’s absolutely worth reading, because all the “anti-DEI” bullshit currently being enacted is straight out of this document’s pages, sometimes word-for-word.) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/82 "2025-03-26T19:14:35Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I read somewhere that it’s specifically called for in the Project 2025 plan. I won’t say that for sure, though, without verifying for myself — I’m skimming through an **[online copy](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/project_2025_original1.pdf)** and will report again if I find something relevant. (But it’ll be a while. This fucker is like 900 pages.) Project 2025 training videos stress not leaving a paper trail. > **[Inside Project 2025’s Secret Training Videos](https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-project-2025-secret-training-videos-trump-election)** > > “Eradicate climate change references”; only talk to conservative media; don’t leave a paper trail for watchdogs to discover. In a series of never-before-published videos, Project 2025 details how a second Trump administration would operate. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/83 "2025-03-26T19:24:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Reading it now I just read the gift link and am struck by how much like Trump’s xits that writing is. > [@Babale](#): > > > [@Horatius](#): > > > > 🇨🇦 🇨🇦 🦫 🤬 🇨🇦 👉 🏴‍☠️ 👉 🇱🇷 > > How is Liberia involved? They’re not. But I can readily believe the current clien crew in office don’t know that’s not the US flag. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/84 "2025-03-26T19:28:01Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Project 2025 training videos stress not leaving a paper trail. > > [Inside Project 2025’s Secret Training Videos — ProPublica](https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-project-2025-secret-training-videos-trump-election) I’m pretty sure that public records laws require digital communications like this to be preserved as well. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/85 "2025-03-26T19:32:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m pretty sure that public records laws require digital communications like this to be preserved as well But if they’ve been automatically deleted, how would anyone interested in following the law ever know about them? Assuming for a moment that some incompetent moron doesn’t just send them to an unaffiliated third party. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/86 "2025-03-26T19:33:03Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t know what “this” refers to here. I think it’s obvious they planned to use Signal instead of approved channels so they could get around data retention policies and hide their actions from any current or future investigations. I don’t think they meant to include the Atlantic editor, though. Sorry is I was unclear. I agree that there is a widespread plan in the Trump administration to use non-government communications systems in order to avoid leaving a future evidence trail. And I agree that they know this is illegal. The part that I feel was not planned was letting people outside the administration know this was happening ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/87 "2025-03-26T19:33:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m pretty sure that public records laws require digital communications like this to be preserved as well. That’s why they use something like Signal. In a week, it’s gone and there’s no getting it back. I do wonder if anyone filed an injunction against whoever owns Signal’s servers to make sure these messages aren’t deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/88 "2025-03-26T19:37:19Z")
So is the use of Signal a violation of those public records laws? I remember during Trump’s first term, he would tear up documents shown to him, after which aides would attempt to put them back together for preservation. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/89 "2025-03-26T19:38:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So is the use of Signal a violation of those public records laws? I’m not a lawyer, but yes. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The part that I feel was not planned was letting people outside the administration know this was happening Agree 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/90 "2025-03-26T19:49:08Z")
I find it fascinating that they appear to be True Believers, or at least SecDef is. He talks about how this strike will reinstate “deterrent” which Biden “cratered”, whereas in the Real World, the US and UK were striking targets every month in 2024. So stupid. We are cooked. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/91 "2025-03-26T19:50:00Z")
So how much more secret discussions are going on via Signal or other unapproved communications channels? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/92 "2025-03-26T19:57:58Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > To be honest, at first I assumed that this was an intentional leak (especially with Tulsi Gabbard involved) but it now just looks like these people are just a bunch of yahoos who actually know nothing about OPSEC and don’t understand or care about how using such systems compromises the integrity of tactical operations and can even put military members and intelligence operatives at risk. _Because these people are incompetent bumblers!_ And broadcast it on an app that has probably been hacked by bad actors who were reading in in real time. This could have gone sideways very easily and resulted in a disastrous outcome for the pilots who were in harm’s way. The spin on this from Fox morons and others is beyond ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/93 "2025-03-26T20:00:32Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > For those who don’t, Lysenko was a Soviet scientist. His work was scientifically invalid and crap. But, he was very loyal and kept praising the leadership of the Soviet Union. He kept getting promoted. Scientists doing actual science with the aim of helping people said his work was crap. They were killed or shipped off to gulags. I have no idea when, if ever, this stopped. He basically lost a lot of influence after the death of Stalin but retained his position as director of the Institute of Genetics until 1965 (was briefly removed in 1955 but returned by Khrushchev). Not only were dissenting scientists punished but the impact of Lysenko’s promotion of pseudoscience caused the deaths of millions due to famines both in the Soviet Union and the Peoples Republic of China (which continued to apply principles of Lysenkoism even after it had been essentially abandoned in Soviet agriculture). Incompetence can be just as damaging as deliberate perfidy, and especially as it pertains to science-informed policy impacting real lives. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/94 "2025-03-26T20:01:37Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > I find it fascinating that they appear to be True Believers, or at least SecDef is. He talks about how this strike will reinstate “deterrent” which Biden “cratered”, whereas in the Real World, the US and UK were striking targets every month in 2024. Hegseth and the others may be True Believers. But I think it’s equally possible that they were aware that anything that said might get repeated to Trump. So all of them made sure to cover their asses by saying things they knew would please Trump. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/95 "2025-03-26T20:04:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m pretty sure that public records laws require digital communications like this to be preserved as well. That’s the thing about fascist coups, they tend not to care about laws. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/96 "2025-03-26T20:06:00Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > That’s the thing about fascist coups, they tend not to care about laws. Well, most laws: > **[Nuremberg Laws | Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nuremberg-laws)** > > Learn more about the Reich Citizenship Law and the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor, collectively known as the Nuremberg Race Laws. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vMGbZswSz_w/hqdefault.jpg "Conspiracy - "The Reality of the Jew"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMGbZswSz_w) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/97 "2025-03-26T20:12:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It looks like Waltz is taking the fall for this one . . . That’s unfortunate because he’s closer to normie than most of them. Accidentally letting Jeffrey Goldberg see classified information was not the biggest scandal here. Goldberg is highly responsible. (That’s why leakers have him on speed dial.) Worse is use of personal cell phones. Although the inconvenience of using approved communications is the main reason they would use signal, we do not know for sure if they all were on personal phones. It might be that Waltz is not at most fault here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/98 "2025-03-26T20:17:35Z")
He’s a hack and a wannabe, not a true believer. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/99 "2025-03-26T20:22:29Z")
Here is the White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt on the Signal leak. Tl;Dw Nothing wrong happened and it’s Biden’s fault. (25 minutes) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-TICoiU-N8Y/maxresdefault.jpg "FULL REMARKS: White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt on Signal leak, more at briefing") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TICoiU-N8Y) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136/100 "2025-03-26T20:25:46Z")
It is a meme of a teary eyed Musk saying " **you guys have a group chat?**" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-plans-signal-screwup-the-atlantic-is-publishing-the-full-messages/1016136.md?page=6)