# WAR...So are ya ready to put up or shut up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2001, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001 "2001-09-16T18:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/61 "2001-09-17T21:57:55Z")
OK, i’ll bite. Yes, i support major military action (war if necessary), but no, i wouldn’t sign up for the armed services to fight. Does this make me a hypocrit? I don’t think so. People choose to join the services … they get paid for it … that’s their job. Everyone pays taxes to support their jobs, so why shouldn’t they all get a voice (through their elected representitives) in how the military should be used? Why do you think that only those that are willing to do the actual fighting should be making the decisions? I would never become a police officer either, but does that mean i should have no voice in determining the laws of this nation? Should only cops make the laws because they’re the ones that enforce them? Is it legitimate for you to yell that murder is wrong if you aren’t willing to go arrest the perpetrator yourself? What i do not support is the draft (except in dire circumstances). The only people who should be doing the fighting are those who chose to do the fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/62 "2001-09-17T22:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > \*\*Due to several instances of bad judgement and bad luck in the past I may not be considered moral enough to join up and kill people (to paraphrase Arlo Guthrie). Although I do have experience being attacked by knives and being shot at, so that may work in my favor. 😉 All in all, if they ask me, I’ll be there as soon as I can pry my fat ass out my chair. \*\* To lay your mind to rest (possibly), when I had to undergo a serious background check to gain a top secret clearance while in Germany, some of the questions they asked concerned “dubious moral judgements” on my part. After I admitted that I had been a somewhat heavy drug user in my youth as well as some other bad jusgement calls on my part, the matter was dropped. If you’re honest with the questioners, they WILL take your word. After all, one of the mainstays of the Service Academies is Honor before all else. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/63 "2001-09-17T22:48:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > Are ya ready to enlist? Among those of you who are so very determined that war is the answer…are you prepared to do what like-minded men (and women!) did in WWII and put your very own ass on the line? Hmm? And if you really are too old… are you encouraging your children to do so? Our ass is already on the line. My girlfriend and I both work (or worked I should say. Now I have to go to some alternate office in Crackheadville, New Jersey) in the World Financial Center next to the WTC. Many of our friends and family worked in the World Trade Center and surrounding office buildings. Fortunately all of them escaped unharmed. I’m not going to run out and enlist tomorrow, but if I was called upon I would go if I thought it would prevent another jetliner from crashing into another American city. Do I want to go to war? No. But I also don’t want to live in a world where I have to wonder if that plane flying overhead is going to suddenly swerve into a school or something. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > I’m still unconvinced that we can really make a dent in terrorism with conventional warfare. Understand that Bush is not talking about ‘conventional war’ in the ‘Band of Brothers’, Desert Storm/WWII, armor and mechanized infantry storming into Afghanistan by the 10,000s sense. Bush is talking about a war using our intelligence forces to find their camps, our law enforcement forces to cut off their funding and specialized military forces to attack and kill them. I think everyone agrees that turning Kabul from pieces of rubble into smaller pieces of rubble would not be effective. I believe that finding and killing their leadership and power base is an effective strategy. Forget creating a martyr to the cause. Without leadership providing money, resources and leadership, all you are left with is an impotent mob chucking rocks at an American flag. ---
**Author:** ![Squooshed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Squooshed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squooshed)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/64 "2001-09-18T00:58:48Z")
Count me in the group of people who believe direct military action will be necessary. I would sign up if needed. I wouldn’t be true to my father’s memory if I did anything else. But, I don’t think that our military needs me to join up right now in order to fight the upcoming battles because I think there are enough people far better equipped and trained for this than I. To answer the OP though, if it comes to a general call to arms, I’ll answer. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/65 "2001-09-18T01:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Understand that Bush is not talking about ‘conventional war’ in the ‘Band of Brothers’, Desert Storm/WWII, armor and mechanized infantry storming into Afghanistan by the 10,000s sense. Sure hope you’re right. Gotta hope there’s someone very close to “Landslide” George who can say very loudly “A land war in Afghanistan is INSANE, REPEAT, **INSANE!** ” If that’s their plan, hell, no, I wont go! Do my damnedest to make sure you don’t either. And don’t even think about asking for my son. No man serves his country by doing something dishonorable, cruel, or, in this case, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/66 "2001-09-18T02:16:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sjc \* > \*\*No, I wouldn’t. I respect those who would, but I can’t do it. I do not believe in killing and I do not wish to support a war as the solution to this problem. \*\* I have served my time and too old anyway, so I want to know: Is this a religious conviction or just something personal? That’s my first question. The second is: If you don’t believe in war as a solution, then what sort of solution do you believe there can be. Remember that bin Laden believes that his part of the world should be allowed to live in the same conditions that he is now living in in Alfghanistan (some people have called this the 14th century). Also remember that you could be in the next target group. There were plenty of persons that went to Canada, etc. because they didn’t believe in a war that they had to serve in. ---
**Author:** ![Czaoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Czaoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czaoth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/67 "2001-09-18T02:24:24Z")
Sign me up. Just let me graduate High School next year. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/68 "2001-09-18T03:01:20Z")
If I’m drafted, I’ll go. But I probably wouldn’t volunteer… not at this point, anyways. Of course, I have a year of HS left… and I won’t turn 18 until I’m in college… so the likelihood is kinda slim unless they’re still drafting in '06… I don’t know though. Depending on circumstances, I might volunteer. However, if they have me killing civilians I won’t even answer the draft… There’s a lot of factors, I guess. I am pretty good at laser tag… just need to learn how to operate something with a kick… whatever. This is really disjointed. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/69 "2001-09-18T03:41:11Z")
I’m not in good shape physically, but if they want me they can have me. ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Jaguar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jet_jaguar/32/3562_2.png) [@Jet\_Jaguar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Jaguar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/70 "2001-09-18T15:45:16Z")
No, I wouldn’t volunteer. I work as an engineer in the defense industry, I believe I would better serve my country by continuing the work I’m already doing now. However, I’d go if drafted. I’m in good shape and I’m a decent shot. If they said “No, we’d rather you stop what you’re doing and take this here M-16…”, I would do it. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/71 "2001-09-19T03:06:16Z")
I’d venture a qualified “no”. I’m far too out of shape to be made into a useful soldier anytime soon. I might be useful from a medical standpoint, but I don’t feel well-trained enough to be that useful (not having done a residency yet). Even so, I think one of the worst mistakes we could make would be to send too many of our doctors and other health care workers off to a war. The possibility of a bioterrorist attack is very real–in fact, I’d say that if this war comes to any magnitude, there will almost certainly be a bioterrorist attack on the US somewhere. I’ve studied the issue a bit, and I believe that I could best serve my country by helping us prepare for and deal with such an attack. Besides, I’m contracted to return to Eastern KY after my residency, and they are not going to need any less health care just because a war is going on. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Rossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@Rossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rossarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/72 "2001-09-19T03:52:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monocracy \* > \*\*Yes, i support major military action (war if necessary), but no, i wouldn’t sign up for the armed services to fight. Does this make me a hypocrit? \*\* No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > **Everyone pays taxes to support their jobs, so why shouldn’t they all get a voice (through their elected representitives) in how the military should be used? Why do you think that only those that are willing to do the actual fighting should be making the decisions?** Yes, you should have a say. I’m in the military, and I would be a hypocrite to say that every American shouldn’t have their say, from the flag-waving patriot to the ardent conscientious objector. People who feel they wouldn’t join the military because of this situation should neither feel bad nor be made to feel bad. It is a choice made by each individual. Besides, if we all went and fought, the country would collapse. That wouldn’t make much sense. 🙂 > [@](#): > > \*\*What i do not support is the draft (except in dire circumstances). The only people who should be doing the fighting are those who chose to do the fighting. \*\* I agree as well. As a democracy, if we are involved in something that the populace is not willing to support by joining the military, we probably shouldn’t be doing it. I can think of extreme exceptions, but they mostly involve world war. And on that note, I think people tossing the word “draft” around is getting a bit silly. I can’t even imagine this situation reaching that point. ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/73 "2001-09-19T11:09:26Z")
I’m too old to join the armed forces now. I _did_ join the Navy in 1981 and I served my 6 years. My husband is still active duty, although he will be retiring in July – unless we go to declared war, in which case he will pull his retirment papers. My brother is also active duty – like my husband he is retiring this year and, like my husband, if this goes to war he will pull his retirement papers. My nephew is a Marine. My dad, BTW, is a retired Navy Warrant Officer. My son (15 yo) and other nephew (16 yo) both expect to do military service after they graduate from high school – either by going to a service academy or, if we were at war, by enlisting. Obviously my family has a history of military service and, equally obviously, I am proud of that. That said, I am not calling for war _at this time._ If we go to war (and that may become necessary) I want to be sure that our objectives are as clearly defined as possible. In other words, while I do not object to kicking some ass, I want to be sure that we’re wearing the right boots. Jess ---
**Author:** ![Xerxes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/d2c977/32.png) [@Xerxes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xerxes)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/74 "2001-09-19T13:48:10Z")
> [@](#): > > WAR…So are ya ready to put up or shut up? Well, shut up, I guess. I feel distinctly uncomfortable that any military operation other than that involving Special Forces might be seriously considered. And therefore (since I am unlikely to qualify for the UK’s SAS or SBS) I have to say that I would not enlist. I would support to the hilt any operation involving them, however. Any large-scale operation in Afghanistan is likely to breed 10 ObL’s for every one you kill. Not a great outcome, in my opinion. Best of all would be to recourse to the International Court of Justice in The Hague. Have the evidence indict ObL as a war criminal and have him go through the system. The advantages are that judges other than those in the US would be involved (perhaps including some from non-militant Muslim countries) - he would be seen as being tried by the World, not just the US. Disadvantages are that it would take some time. The UK sought this route for Pan Am 103 (Lockerbie). ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/75 "2001-09-19T14:28:31Z")
I cannot honestly say if I would sign up or not. I whole heartedly support our troops and would consider joining if not for the fact I am a single (widowed) father of a 7 year old son. I do not know if they would even consider me for the same reason since I don’t have anyone to raise my child in my absence (not that I would want that to happen). I am not a coward or scared to fight, but I really would have to put my son’s individual needs first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/76 "2001-09-19T14:44:34Z")
Actually, Stoid, I am thinking of visiting the recruiting center tomorrow to enlist. However, as I am nearly 42 years old with a bad back (herniated disc) and poor vision (extreme near-sightedness), I am not sure the Armed Forces are desperate enough to want me. Even if they do take me, I will ask to delay my entry into the service for a couple of months to wrap up personal affairs, including finding good homes for my cats and ensuring that I can continue to pay off my debts. ---
**Author:** ![Blacksheepsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@Blacksheepsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blacksheepsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/77 "2001-09-20T13:44:17Z")
I got married a year ago. I’m 29, and I feel that I’m just getting started, that the best is yet to come in my life. But every day since last Tuesday, I’ve felt guilty about not marching out of my office, up a block or two, and into the Marine recruiting center. If they wouldn’t take me–I don’t know, maybe the Marines want 'em younger–I’m sure they could tell me where to go. The Army would take me, though Dad was a Marine and I’d have to live with some static over that. I haven’t done it, though. I’m afraid to die, sure, but that’s not all of it. I’d go if they called. Hell, I’d go if the war was on, the President got on TV and said, “Everybody under 30, we need you. No draft, but if you’re healthy, please give serious consideration to signing up tomorrow.” Mostly, I haven’t done it because the military isn’t the life I want for me or my wife or our child-to-be, even though I feel it’s the most honorable profession. Shoot, I thought about a military career long and hard when I was 18, again when I was 21. Both times I made a conscious decision to do something else. I feel I made the right choice both times. Maybe this is the third time. And I feel guilty, even though it’s still not what I want. At a time like this, who really cares what I want? In a way, I wish they would call, order me to get my ass in a uniform, and take it out of my hands. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/78 "2001-09-20T16:11:39Z")
Okay…I began processing for the military immediately following high school, but I found out I was pregnant with my child. Now, I’m a single mom, so serving is out of the question for me. I would love to serve - I really would, but I can’t leave my son. My 26-year-old boyfriend has stated flat out he would not volunteer. He said he wouldn’t dodge a draft, but he wouldn’t give me his “philosophy” on the subject because, he says, I’d think he was a horrible person if he told me what he thought about military service. God help me, I’m disappointed by this - disappointed in him. The likelihood is that he’d be unfit for service anyway, as he has a chronic condition, but I guess I have trouble understanding why a person who enjoys the freedoms that America provides would allow other people to fight, kill and die for those freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/79 "2001-09-20T16:39:31Z")
I’ve got to echo the vast majority of people here. I currently do scientific research sponsored by DoD, but if we do indeed go to war, they can have me in whichever capacity they deem best. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001/80 "2001-09-20T22:57:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > **Forgive the taunting title, I’m only trying to get your attention, not your ire…These questions are not a covert jab… I’d really like to know.** In wartime (declared or not) there will be a powerful need on the home front to conserve essential resources. And so, as your Wartime Consigliere, I hereby note that your statements quoted above are a) ludicrously disingenuous, b) totally unbelievable, and c) a waste of valuable forum space. The people who organize and conduct wars are almost always too old to fight in them. Is this really a new discovery for you? Lament it, challenge it, but spare us the “Gee, I really want to know”. The Revolutionary War-era ‘Don’t Tread On Me’ flags can be viewed/saved from various sites, including the U. of Oklahoma Law Center’s webpages plus a variety of far right-of-center sites. Dr. J., congratulations on your upcoming service in eastern Kentucky!! As a former resident, I think you’ll enjoy the beautiful country, at least the non-strip mined parts, and the people. Just keep the OxyContin prescriptions down to a reasonable number. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/war-so-are-ya-ready-to-put-up-or-shut-up/82001.md?page=5)