# Warhammer 40,000 (Lore & Discussion on related books & stories) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [April 6, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213 "2020-04-06T19:52:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/41 "2020-04-09T00:22:27Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > This is a common interpretation, but not one I entirely buy. For a species (of sorts) on the scale that they are, biomass would be irrelevant - they can get the necessary materials elsewhere if they wished. They destroy because they want or choose to do so, and have even created specialized creatures to infiltrate, subvert, and destroy civilizations from within in order to keep doing so. Sapient meat is the tastiest meat. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/42 "2020-04-09T00:35:37Z")
Spotted the Kroot. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/43 "2020-04-09T05:09:40Z")
Today I learned [who the Zoats are](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdyWUNTXEB0). ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/44 "2020-04-09T05:46:14Z")
only played the pc/console games I’ve played the medieval; Warhammer games off and on over the years so when we thought 40 k was just the same in the future and then we tried space marines … yeah, I could see where people would think40k fans are fascist … things like "life is the emperor’s currency use it well " and that was one of the milder slogans in the game…needless to say, we didn’t finish it … ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/45 "2020-04-09T07:49:54Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I don’t mind the Tau although many players dislike them for being so cheery. The ones I know who hated them, hated them for being so obviously weeabo. Me, I liked the potential storyline of rebellion and uprising against the screamingly-obvious mind/pheremone control of the Ethereals, as exemplified by the Farsight Enclave. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/46 "2020-04-09T14:52:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The ones I know who hated them, hated them for being so obviously weeabo. > > Me, I liked the potential storyline of rebellion and uprising against the screamingly-obvious mind/pheremone control of the Ethereals, as exemplified by the Farsight Enclave. Fair enough! I think it took some time for the writers to figure out a compelling story for the Tau. As it was, they were initially presented as being, well, weeaboo and also incredibly obnoxiously “better” than everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/47 "2020-04-09T16:20:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I watched a couple of reactions to Part 5 and I was blown away by how the guys recognized the insignias and armor and the little things that signify rank and status, but the guy who made the 34:36 analysis video, Arch Warhammer, is really into this stuff. He comes across like a freaking Warhammer scholar (and I have no doubt that’s an accurate description ) and it’s mind-boggling how much detail is packed into this film. I’d stay away from Arch Warhammer, unless you want other fashy alt-right youtubers to show up in your recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/48 "2020-04-09T17:18:16Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I’d stay away from Arch Warhammer, unless you want other fashy alt-right youtubers to show up in your recommendations. Ah; some quick research does seem to back up what you say. Thanks for the heads-up. ——— This morning I spent [8 minutes listening to Baldemort tell me the story of the last Thunder Warrior and then another 10 minutes listening to him expound on the subject](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBfcYdmwb9I). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/49 "2020-04-09T17:23:42Z")
\*Baldermort ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/50 "2020-04-09T17:39:46Z")
No problem. I stumbled upon him some years ago looking for lore on Warhammer Fantasy, but after a while something felt odd about him. A little research later and sure, he’s a fashy asshole. He’s still popping up now and then, can’t seem to get rid of him. I recently started up a force of the new murder nuns, so I’ve been watching and reading quite a lot about 40k lately. Occulus Imperia is great if you like in-character video essays. I know some can’t stand it though. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/51 "2020-04-09T19:24:50Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I’d stay away from Arch Warhammer, unless you want other fashy alt-right youtubers to show up in your recommendations. I watched a few of his feeds last year or they year before and suddenly my feed was filled with rants about SJWs. It was weird. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/52 "2020-04-09T20:10:57Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Fair enough! I think it took some time for the writers to figure out a compelling story for the Tau. As it was, they were initially presented as being, well, weeaboo and also incredibly obnoxiously “better” than everyone. And it was such a departure from the usual Grimdark. I myself see the Tau as a transparent marketing effort to draw in anime fans and others who aren’t so metal in their outlook. But, you know, it 's good to have a faction that really is different in a profound way. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/53 "2020-04-09T20:23:11Z")
One thing I think is very cool about the 40k universe is that they sometimes stage various “Crusades” and things, where the actual results of the role playing/hobbyists becomes part of the in-game lore. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/54 "2020-04-09T21:06:22Z")
That sounds cool, **bump** ; can you give an example? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/55 "2020-04-10T19:25:16Z")
> **[40K LORE: The 13th Black Crusade](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/06/40k-lore-the-13th-black-crusade.html)** > > Do you remember when Eldrad died, or when Abaddon had obtained the mysterious object from the center of the Eye known as the Heart of Chaos? Well apparently the most momentous event in recent 40k lore has disappeared.  Since I started... That’s all I can find, but I’m guessing I’m just not googling the right terms. I had heard about it some time ago back when I was more into tabletop games and stuff- as I understood it, the GW folks distributed battles and stuff to sanctioned events, and played them out, and the results went up, new battles came down, etc… Sounds like from that article though, they tend to retcon stuff sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/56 "2020-04-10T19:38:34Z")
The last paragraph is very interesting! Thanks for that link! I spent about 35 minutes this morning learning about Eisenhorn, but stopped before the resolve because they seem like really cool stories and I’d like to just read them. I may be able to secure the first 3 books in paperback at a very reasonable price; i.e. somewhat less than the [nearly US$11,000 dollars that a hardcover edition (in español, no less) is listed for on Amazon](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/8448044002/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1586543773&sr=8-1). ETA: What’s up with the prices on used copies of these books? Why are there never reprints or new editions? There is clearly a huge demand for these books. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/57 "2020-04-13T14:47:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ETA: What’s up with the prices on used copies of these books? Why are there never reprints or new editions? There is clearly a huge demand for these books. I wonder if it has anything to do with how Games Workshop handles their intellectual property. Some of the faction names for 40k have changed since those books were published. The Imperial Guard is now officially known as the Astra Militarum and the Eldar and Dark Eldar now have less generic easier names to defend on copyright grounds. I think GW is moving the setting of 40k in a new direction. When the lore was originally created it was okay that it was completely outrageous and over-the-top because it was just a bare bones reason why these space people were hitting those space elves with chain swords. I think they’re dialing back the grim darkity darkness of the setting a bit. They’ve certainly dialed back Slaanesh, we’ve been introduced to a new breed of Space Marines, and it looks like humanity is on the cusp of some technological breakthroughs. So it’s going to be a little less grim dark soon I think. And GW has a habit of just ignoring lore when it suits them. And they can go on ignoring something for years before bringing it back again. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/58 "2020-04-15T01:47:01Z")
My book showed up today; it’s freaking HUGE. 672 pages, hardcover, with 37 stories plus an introduction. This is gonna make for interesting bedtime reading. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/59 "2020-04-15T02:38:51Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I think they’re dialing back the grim darkity darkness of the setting a bit. They’ve certainly dialed back Slaanesh, we’ve been introduced to a new breed of Space Marines, and it looks like humanity is on the cusp of some technological breakthroughs. So it’s going to be a little less grim dark soon I think. And GW has a habit of just ignoring lore when it suits them. And they can go on ignoring something for years before bringing it back again. I think one issue was that the old setting was getting, well, old. You can only write the same un-moving setting for long, so they decided to advance things and try something new. I don’t like the Primaris myself, but the idea of one of the ancient heroes coming back to lead the Empire while the Biggest of Big Bads rise to meet him - well, that’s pretty classic for the setting. Separate idea which may border on fan theory: IMHO, the Empire never really lost its technology. Instead, it’s the _economy_ which broke down. For all the moaning about all the technology they’ve lost, it’s been shown that when they want to the Imperium can actually put stuff together, it’s just very costly to do. Why would that be? Oh, I don’t know - it might have to do with the fact they had a massive Empire-splitting civil war, and then pretty much kept doing external or internal wars for the next ten eons. Oh, and they started things off by launching a massed conquest of basically all the human worlds in space, many of which were brought into, err… _compliance_ based on brute force and bloody destruction. (Gee, I WONDER WHY so much of the technical base is hard to manage?) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213/60 "2020-04-15T02:48:22Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Separate idea which may border on fan theory: IMHO, the Empire never really lost its technology. Instead, it’s the _economy_ which broke down. For all the moaning about all the technology they’ve lost, it’s been shown that when they want to the Imperium can actually put stuff together, it’s just very costly to do. Why would that be? Oh, I don’t know - it might have to do with the fact they had a massive Empire-splitting civil war, and then pretty much kept doing external or internal wars for the next ten eons. Oh, and they started things off by launching a massed conquest of basically all the human worlds in space, many of which were brought into, err… _compliance_ based on brute force and bloody destruction. (Gee, I WONDER WHY so much of the technical base is hard to manage?) I don’t think so. The Mechanicus is more religion than scientists (literally…see the Omnissiah). They carefully preserve existing technology but rarely develop new stuff on their own. Sure they can make giant spaceships but they are just little spaceships supersized. Operating their tech is more religious in character than just some gearhead doing their thing and they are super serious about the religious aspect. They will go to any lengths to get their hands on an S.T.C. which is old super tech libraries (think a super 3d printer attached to a super library of cool stuff). But they don’t innovate. They are very stagnant. AIs are completely forbidden (for good reason…almost killed everything way, way back). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warhammer-40-000-lore-discussion-on-related-books-stories/851213.md?page=4)