# Warlords of Draenor: WoW General Discussion thread 10/13/2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 14, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272 "2014-10-14T05:05:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/662 "2016-07-18T19:00:32Z")
I’m excited because I play combat rogue as my main and she’ll be turning into an outlaw spec. I miss the days rogues could fire guns, so I’m looking forward to it (although I don’t think we can equip guns, it’s just a visual effect of an ability). I do regret having only one month at 100 with my Alliance paladin, though. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/663 "2016-07-18T19:09:20Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > And Legion itself is less than a month-and-a-half away. > > Anyone feelin’ it? I’m not, but maybe the pre-Xpack patch may change my mind. Or it may drive me away from the game entirely, if they “break it” too much. > > I haven’t bought Legion, and I’m still on the wall about it. I’ve been following the development and trying it out on PTR, and they’ve done a lot of stupid things, in my opinion. I don’t know you can even call it an “expansion”, not when they’re taking so much away. They _should_ have done things like let Outlaw Rogues wield either melee weapons or guns, with a broad toolset of abilities enabled depending on which you’re wielding. Instead they locked players into much narrower niches with far fewer options than they had before. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/664 "2016-07-18T19:38:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I’ve been following the development and trying it out on PTR, and they’ve done a lot of stupid things, in my opinion. I don’t know you can even call it an “expansion”, not when they’re taking so much away. Please, don’t soil these boards with this nonsense. ☹ The expansion is in the content, not the system. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/665 "2016-07-18T20:36:49Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Please, don’t soil these boards with this nonsense. ☹ > The expansion is in the content, not the system. It’s a reasonable argument to say that streamlining game play is reducing the game. In some ways, “content” is overrated, and I for one am tired of the old “they’re holding our raid tiers hostage!” rant. I assure you. If Blizzard reduced the game to “press this one button repeatedly to win”, it would be greatly diminishing the game. Which is the logical opposite of “expansion”. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/666 "2016-07-18T21:39:03Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Please, don’t soil these boards with this nonsense. ☹ > The expansion is in the content, not the system. I don’t think it’s nonsense at all. From a pvp perspective they have been narrowing the game and this appears to be another step in that direction. IMO there should be levels of pvp so that on some servers dying actually means something. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/667 "2016-07-19T03:14:40Z")
Really really late question; hopefully somebody will know the answer. My main has gotten her three bodyguards leveled up to “Wingman”: Delvar Ironfist, Defender Ilona, and Talonpriest Ishaal. They each offered a quest, upon hitting “Wingman”, which unlocks a special ability. Delvar’s quest involved a fairly simple trek through the Everbloom to kill a named mob. Ishaal’s quest was the same, but in the Shadowmoon Enclave. Ilona’s quest apparently involves fighting through an area in Shattrath packed with level 100 elite demons. And thanks to Ilona’s special ability to aggro everything in a 100-yard radius, we promptly ended up with with about 27 elite demons pounding on us. So the question is: Is there a simpler route to the the mob we need to kill for her quest? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/668 "2016-07-19T06:15:23Z")
Fly? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/669 "2016-07-19T14:20:18Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Really really late question; hopefully somebody will know the answer. > > My main has gotten her three bodyguards leveled up to “Wingman”: Delvar Ironfist, Defender Ilona, and Talonpriest Ishaal. They each offered a quest, upon hitting “Wingman”, which unlocks a special ability. > > Delvar’s quest involved a fairly simple trek through the Everbloom to kill a named mob. Ishaal’s quest was the same, but in the Shadowmoon Enclave. > > Ilona’s quest apparently involves fighting through an area in Shattrath packed with level 100 elite demons. And thanks to Ilona’s special ability to aggro everything in a 100-yard radius, we promptly ended up with with about 27 elite demons pounding on us. > > So the question is: Is there a simpler route to the the mob we need to kill for her quest? I remember doing this quest on a couple of Alliance toons, but not really much difficulty. But I won’t discount your experience. If she’s anything like the Horde equivalent, she’ll chain pull trash until she dies. Still, reading some of the [comments on the quest page on WoWHead](http://www.wowhead.com/quest=37127/the-light-of-exodus), here’s some suggestions. [ol] [li]Fly, as **Max the Immortal** suggested. Clearly eliminates the “approach” problem, assuming you’ve bothered to grind the achievement necessary to unlock Draenor flying.[/li][li]Approach from the sea. You can approach close enough to do a ranged pull from in the water without aggroing anyone else. If you have a water strider mount, that makes it quicker to get there. If you’d rather fight on land, or you can’t make a ranged pull, there are a couple of places you can haul out (like stairs) where you don’t have to fight the entire Burning Legion, just a few packs of mobs. Less likely to get completely out of hand. And some items, like a [Breath of Talador](http://www.wowhead.com/item=116113/breath-of-talador#comments), can apparently be used to push you up onto the pier from within the water.[/li][li]Glide in using a Goblin Glider (either the engineering one in a cloak, if you’re an engineer, or a normal one if you know an engineer or can buy it from the AH or something). There are a few approaches, some convoluted, some simple but still leaves you to fight your way through part of the mess.[/li][li]Stealth, if that’s an option.[/li][li]Don’t take Illona. No, really. Incredible as it sounds, the comments say that she doesn’t actually have to be involved in the fight. You get the kill and loot the completing quest item, not her. So leave her at the garrison, do the thing, and come back to her at the barracks to complete the quest. And since this quest boss is in the area of the “Shattrath Harbor” apexis crystal missive or daily, you can pick up a few hundred apexis crystals continuing to kill stuff in the area while you’re at it. (Since you left Illona behind, so you control the pulls, not her.)[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/670 "2016-07-19T15:18:59Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I assure you. If Blizzard reduced the game to “press this one button repeatedly to win”, it would be greatly diminishing the game. Which is the logical opposite of “expansion”. So would you say 200 abilities and a target dummy would be a great expansion? No? Luckily Blizzard is doing neither. Thing here is we heard the same silliness before WoD was released, once it was out people adapted quickly and started complaining about the lack of content instead. Saying that an expansion that adds a continent, 1500+ quests, raids, dungeons and new items etc, is not really an expansion just because you don’t like the class changes is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/671 "2016-07-19T15:34:48Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I remember doing this quest on a couple of Alliance toons, but not really much difficulty. But I won’t discount your experience. If she’s anything like the Horde equivalent, she’ll chain pull trash until she dies. > > Still, reading some of the [comments on the quest page on WoWHead](http://www.wowhead.com/quest=37127/the-light-of-exodus), here’s some suggestions. > > [ol] > [li]Fly, as **Max the Immortal** suggested. Clearly eliminates the “approach” problem, assuming you’ve bothered to grind the achievement necessary to unlock Draenor flying.[/li][li]Approach from the sea. You can approach close enough to do a ranged pull from in the water without aggroing anyone else. If you have a water strider mount, that makes it quicker to get there. If you’d rather fight on land, or you can’t make a ranged pull, there are a couple of places you can haul out (like stairs) where you don’t have to fight the entire Burning Legion, just a few packs of mobs. Less likely to get completely out of hand. And some items, like a [Breath of Talador](http://www.wowhead.com/item=116113/breath-of-talador#comments), can apparently be used to push you up onto the pier from within the water.[/li][li]Glide in using a Goblin Glider (either the engineering one in a cloak, if you’re an engineer, or a normal one if you know an engineer or can buy it from the AH or something). There are a few approaches, some convoluted, some simple but still leaves you to fight your way through part of the mess.[/li][li]Stealth, if that’s an option.[/li][li]Don’t take Illona. No, really. Incredible as it sounds, the comments say that she doesn’t actually have to be involved in the fight. You get the kill and loot the completing quest item, not her. So leave her at the garrison, do the thing, and come back to her at the barracks to complete the quest. And since this quest boss is in the area of the “Shattrath Harbor” apexis crystal missive or daily, you can pick up a few hundred apexis crystals continuing to kill stuff in the area while you’re at it. (Since you left Illona behind, so you control the pulls, not her.)[/li][/ol] Cool! I’ll bring Ishaal along with me, since he doesn’t seem to have that AoE aggro problem. I can’t fly yet (blame barely playing last year and only recently spending time in Tanaan). This will be on my ret pally main, and she’s pretty much able to solo the elites in Tanaan, so shouldn’t have too much trouble in Shattrath. As long as she’s not having to take on 27 at a time 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/672 "2016-07-19T15:35:45Z")
I’m just waiting to see what they do to pvp. So far, I like some of the class changes proposed but I am worried that they are removing the main pvp incentive (currency to get better gear). ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/673 "2016-07-19T15:41:37Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I’m just waiting to see what they do to pvp. So far, I like some of the class changes proposed but I am worried that they are removing the main pvp incentive (currency to get better gear). I was looking at the blurb (mini video) on the WoW launcher and it puzzled the crap out of me. Gear is basically equalized? Forever and a day, PvP came down to just a few predictable factors: initiative (both tactical initiative during combat, and surprise in world PvP); class balance (rock-paper-scissors among classes, for instance); and gear. Now they’re homogenizing gear’s effects? I can’t even picture how that will look. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/674 "2016-07-19T16:37:18Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I was looking at the blurb (mini video) on the WoW launcher and it puzzled the crap out of me. Gear is basically equalized? Forever and a day, PvP came down to just a few predictable factors: initiative (both tactical initiative during combat, and surprise in world PvP); class balance (rock-paper-scissors among classes, for instance); and gear. Now they’re homogenizing gear’s effects? I can’t even picture how that will look. That’s what it looks like to me which is worrisome. I want my pvp to be brutal and have consequences. I much prefer the open style of an Ashran (as goofy as that is) to the BG’s. Death should mean that another player can loot your corpse and take some of your equipment. This could be limited to high-end pvp severs or even areas. I got bored with the BG’s even after getting rated and having full sets on two of my chars. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/675 "2016-07-19T17:19:04Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I want my pvp to be brutal and have consequences. Then you’re playing the wrong game, PvP in WoW has always been casual in that sense, I don’t see why you would expect that aspect to change after 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/676 "2016-07-19T18:55:14Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I want my pvp to be brutal and have consequences. I want the opposite: I want world PvP to be about the loser recognising that they’re going to lose and getting the hell out of dodge, abandoning whatever corpses or resource nodes they were protecting. I want this because world PvP is only fun for half the people involved. Letting gankers _steal irreplaceable equipment_ would just make a shitty system shittier. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/677 "2016-07-19T19:07:39Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > That’s what it looks like to me which is worrisome. > > I want my pvp to be brutal and have consequences. I much prefer the open style of an Ashran (as goofy as that is) to the BG’s. > > Death should mean that another player can loot your corpse and take some of your equipment. This could be limited to high-end pvp severs or even areas. > > I got bored with the BG’s even after getting rated and having full sets on two of my chars. I have only intellectual interest in PvP. Practically, PvP is just what happens to me when I’m trying to do something else that I actually enjoy. But stepping back from immediate involvement, it’s fascinating to see how PvP is designed in different games (or in the same game over the course of its development). ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/678 "2016-07-19T19:36:58Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Then you’re playing the wrong game, PvP in WoW has always been casual in that sense, I don’t see why you would expect that aspect to change after 10 years. Wasn’t always the case as there was more in-world pvp back in the day (as opposed to specialized areas). I think there is a market for tougher pvp on special servers or in special areas. I might be wrong but the lack of good pvp is what made me drop out of WOW in the first place and may make me do so again. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/679 "2016-07-19T19:39:32Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I have only intellectual interest in PvP. Practically, PvP is just what happens to me when I’m trying to do something else that I actually enjoy. But stepping back from immediate involvement, it’s fascinating to see how PvP is designed in different games (or in the same game over the course of its development). Any examples from other MMO’s? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/680 "2016-07-19T20:07:29Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Any examples from other MMO’s? My limited experience was that Warhammer Online did a lot of technical aspects of PvP right. They had open-world events that resembled battlegrounds, except that they weren’t fenced off or instanced, and they could pop up around you if you weren’t careful (or you could wander into them). I don’t recall the “loot the corpses” being a thing there, though, but it did engender some hard fighting nonetheless. And if I recall, success or failure at these objectives could affect PvE in the entire region, kind of like Wintergrasp but on a larger scale. Even just the trivial thing that characters had collision detection, so you really could blockade a choke point by physically holding it. No one could just phase through you. They had to step over your corpse. You could never do Thermopylae in WoW; the Persians would just walk through the Spartan phalanx, taking casualties in passing but still getting by. Uh. The “loot your opponent” thing I remember seeing in old-school Diablo II ganking, to a limited extent. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272/681 "2016-07-19T20:08:58Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Wasn’t always the case as there was more in-world pvp back in the day (as opposed to specialized areas). I think there is a market for tougher pvp on special servers or in special areas. I might be wrong but the lack of good pvp is what made me drop out of WOW in the first place and may make me do so again. Perhaps there was more of it, but it never had any kind of serious consequences, you never lost anything beyond the time it took to corpse run(unless someone decides to corpse camp you, in which case you lost the time it took for the camper to get bored). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warlords-of-draenor-wow-general-discussion-thread-10-13-2014/701272.md?page=35)