# Warrantless wiretapping extended by Senate with Obama's blessing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409 "2012-12-28T18:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/1 "2012-12-28T18:37:29Z")
Yet another example of the encroachment of authoritarianism in the name of protecting freedom. > [@](#): > > The U.S. Senate renewed the warrantless wiretapping program begun during the George W. Bush administration by a 73 to 23 vote on Friday, sending the FISA Amendments Act to President Barack Obama’s desk for his signature. > The vote marked a symbolic next step for the wiretapping program, which collects Americans’ communications with foreign intelligence targets abroad. Four years ago, in the midst of the 2008 Democratic presidential primary, an identical version of the bill was the subject of a highly contentious debate in the Senate. Obama and others argued then that Bush’s program went too far in violating Americans’ privacy. This year, with a supportive Obama in the Oval Office and the media focus on the fiscal cliff, the bill was renewed with much less attention. > After voting down reform three reform amendments on Thursday, the Senate continued debate on the spy bill on Friday morning. Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) offered an amendment meant to force the National Security Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency to reveal how frequently they have collectedAmericans’ communications as part of their efforts to amass intelligence on foreign targets. Even an estimate would suffice, Wyden has argued – but the spy agencies have rebuffed his efforts to get a general number, claiming it is not possible > **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/)** > > Read the latest headlines, news stories, and opinion from Politics, Entertainment, Life, Perspectives, and more. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/2 "2012-12-28T21:06:06Z")
Can’t always get what you want ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/3 "2012-12-28T21:14:26Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Yet another example of the encroachment of authoritarianism in the name of protecting freedom. But it’s to keep us safe from the eevil terrorists! How can you possibly object? ---
**Author:** ![MybackPacksGotJets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MybackPacksGotJets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MybackPacksGotJets)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/4 "2012-12-29T04:02:39Z")
won’t somebody think of the children!?! ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/5 "2012-12-29T14:17:08Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > But it’s to keep us safe from the eevil terrorists! How can you possibly object? Yeah, it seems like as long as there are any civil liberties left, then the terrorists have won. I think it’s pretty appalling how these things go on and most people don’t know or care. The media in general hypes the stupidest shit while ignoring this kind of stuff that actually is a valid concern. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/6 "2012-12-29T14:55:42Z")
> [@MybackPacksGotJets](#): > > won’t somebody think of the children!?! I also find it pretty telling that while there was a lot of controversy over this sort of thing during Bush’s presidency, people hardly seem to care now. Is it that people have given up, or is it just that Obama fans don’t want to point out his hypocrisy on this issue? Don’t you just love how the one thing that both parties apparently can agree on is trampling over individual rights? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/7 "2012-12-29T15:10:29Z")
This is not a good thing. I’m glad that Obama was re-elected, especially considering his opponent, but this doesn’t make me happy at all. There must be a more effective way to stop terrorism than this. It’s almost like the politicians endorsed this policy because it was the easier method. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/8 "2012-12-29T15:11:35Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Can’t always get what you want But if you try sometime, you just might find you get what you need? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/9 "2012-12-29T15:29:09Z")
Who is really surprised anymore that Obama isn’t much better than Bush in over-reaching Presidential authority and treading on the Constitution? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/10 "2012-12-29T15:56:52Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Who is really surprised anymore that Obama isn’t much better than Bush in over-reaching Presidential authority and treading on the Constitution? I think it goes beyond that. It’s _every_ president. Once they put on the Ring of Power, it’s just too seductive. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/11 "2012-12-29T16:53:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it goes beyond that. It’s _every_ president. Once they put on the Ring of Power, it’s just too seductive. Power does not corrupt, it just lets the corruption shine through. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/12 "2012-12-29T20:51:03Z")
As long as 51% of the people want it, we are not allowed to complain about it. I think that’s how it goes, right? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/13 "2012-12-29T21:10:52Z")
Boooooooo . . . - to all involved. (I know that’s not a constructive statement, but what can we on a piddling little message board do to stop the erosion of American freedoms?) Fat lot of good it does for us little people to complain. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/14 "2012-12-30T01:04:35Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I also find it pretty telling that while there was a lot of controversy over this sort of thing during Bush’s presidency, people hardly seem to care now. Is it that people have given up… Yes, definitely. In 2008, we voted for change - and on the civil liberties front, got more of the same. How do you effect change when both the major parties seem to feel that the Bill of Rights is best used as toilet paper and our voting system effectively shuts third parties out? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/15 "2012-12-30T05:54:13Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > In 2008, we voted for change… There were already warning signs before the election. According to [Glenn Greenwald’s most recent article](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/28/fisa-feinstein-obama-democrats-eavesdropping): > [@](#): > > To this day, many people identify mid-2008 as the time they realized what type of politician Barack Obama actually is. Six months before, when seeking the Democratic nomination, then-Sen. Obama unambiguously vowed that he would filibuster “any bill” that retroactively immunized the telecom industry for having participated in the illegal Bush NSA warrantless eavesdropping program. > > But in July 2008, once he had secured the nomination, a bill came before the Senate that did exactly that - the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 - and Obama not only failed to filibuster as promised, but far worse, he voted against the filibuster brought by other Senators, and then voted in favor of enacting the bill itself. > [@](#): > > How do you effect change when both the major parties seem to feel that the Bill of Rights is best used as toilet paper and our voting system effectively shuts third parties out? ☹ By voting for third parties anyway, and trying to get others to acknowledge what the major parties are both doing wrong. Obama’s CIA is a paramilitary organisation responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent civilians, deaths cited by terrorists and Al Qaeda supporters as the reason why they feel America must be fought. Romney is in favour of torture, a useless practice that achieves nothing except to destroy intelligence sources and inspire hatred. Neither is fit to be President, no matter how they pretend the other is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/16 "2012-12-30T06:40:19Z")
I know it’s all about rights of privacy, but what could you possibly be worried about? What secret information of national intelligence do you share with “foreign intelligence targets abroad?” I never understand these kinds of threads at all. I couldn’t care if every world leader simultaneously listened in on my phone conversations. What the hell is the problem here? You think the CIA is going to actually track YOU down and listen to your mundane bullshit? Obviously the program is intended to thwart actual bona fide terrorist attacks, not whether you need to get eggs on the way home. Just after 9/11 there was a lot of chatter about what was known, and what was unknown, and I’ll bet being able to listen in on some key conversations may have provided some advanced warning. It would have been nice to have known about that, wouldn’t it? I don’t get it. Jeez, I hope the CIA or CSIS isn’t reading this. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/17 "2012-12-30T06:41:09Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > There were already warning signs before the election. That is true. Unfortunately, no other _electable_ Democratic potential nominees were any better. > [@Grumman](#): > > By voting for third parties anyway, and trying to get others to acknowledge what the major parties are both doing wrong. That’s a good plan, except for the fact that it won’t work. Politics is boring, while watching “Dancing with yhe Stars” is fun. And even worse, much of the public LIKES the anti-Constitutional crap that the two major parties are doing. They want to “feel safe” at any cost, and they don’t see how the weakening of constitutional safeguards affects them in any way (since they are clearly good people, and the government never abuses good people, only bad ones). “Why are you opposed to letting the government hear your phone calls and read your email if it helps us catch terrorists? If you’re not a terrorist, you don’t have anything to hide!” I’m very much afraid we’re getting the government we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/18 "2012-12-30T06:42:53Z")
And **Leaffan** proved my point before I could even finish typing my post. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/19 "2012-12-30T06:52:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Obviously the program is intended to thwart actual bona fide terrorist attacks… “Obviously”? What are you basing that on? Corrupt men always use such excuses for seizing power - Stephen Conroy tried to create an unaccountable censorship program under the excuse of combating child pornography, but he was going to use it against legal pornography, online gambling, religions, and even a tour operator. > [@](#): > > Just after 9/11 there was a lot of chatter about what was known, and what was unknown, and I’ll bet being able to listen in on some key conversations may have provided some advanced warning. Then why can’t they just get a warrant? ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409/20 "2012-12-30T06:57:21Z")
I couldn’t give less of a fuck if the government wants to listen to my phone calls or read my emails. If the information gets misused, I’ll sue their bitch asses for several million dollars, and get paid. Otherwise, I’m not doing anything illegal. Besides, the wiretapping is only for phone calls made to or from a foreign country, AFAIK. It’s not like they listen in when I’m calling my wife/daughter/etc… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warrantless-wiretapping-extended-by-senate-with-obamas-blessing/645409.md?page=2)