# Warren forms Exploratory Committee **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983 "2018-12-31T14:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/361 "2019-02-08T20:30:30Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > FWIW, I don’t think you meant it in a misogynist manner. I was just pushing back on the idea that it didn’t have gender connotations. If anybody doubts this, head over to Wikipedia and read about the [Scold’s Bridle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scold%27s_bridle) for a little historical illumination on the gendered history of scold-punishing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/362 "2019-02-08T20:52:53Z")
You know what’s funny? I didn’t say anything about sexism. Which sets up a dilemma: If you did think that the term “authoritarian scold” had sexist overtones, then why did you use it? Alternately, if you did not think that it had sexist overtones, why did you think I was accusing you of sexism? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/363 "2019-02-08T20:58:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You know what’s funny? I didn’t say anything about sexism. Which sets up a dilemma: If you did think that the term “authoritarian scold” had sexist overtones, then why did you use it? Alternately, if you did not think that it had sexist overtones, why did you think I was accusing you of sexism? Uh huh. So what was your point? Just displaying the fact that you didn’t know that different words mean different things? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/364 "2019-02-08T21:32:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You know what’s funny? I didn’t say anything about sexism. Which sets up a dilemma: If you did think that the term “authoritarian scold” had sexist overtones, then why did you use it? Alternately, if you did not think that it had sexist overtones, why did you think I was accusing you of sexism? I didn’t bring up sexism first: RTFirefly did. I merely asked you why you made the comment. And I have been using ‘scold’ for hectoring politicians both male and female since I can remember. A scold to me is simply a humorless person who is perpetually indignant or offended and has to lecture other people about it. As I said, I used the term to refer to Jeff Sessions in the past. So perhaps you could explain what you meant then. Because I think you are playing games. ---
**Author:** ![Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reindeer_flotilla/32/3024_2.png) [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/365 "2019-02-08T22:08:51Z")
I like how we’re getting two classic rebuttal arguments here - the both sides are equally to blame gambit (how dare you take offense at my dog whistle!) and the slam-dunk nuke-it-from-orbit winner: Some of my best friends are scolds! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/366 "2019-02-08T22:32:36Z")
> [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](#): > > I like how we’re getting two classic rebuttal arguments here - the both sides are equally to blame gambit (how dare you take offense at my dog whistle!) and the slam-dunk nuke-it-from-orbit winner: Some of my best friends are scolds! That isn’t what happened at all. Not even remotely. And for the hell of it, I did a search. Sam has used “scold” five times on this MB outside of this thread. He used it for: Bruce Springsteen, Carter, Jon Stewart, Hillary and generically. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/367 "2019-02-08T22:49:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Ah yes, the old “which candidate would you like to have a beer with” test. > > Myself, I’m an aficionado of the “which candidates are up to the job, and will fight to implement the changes I believe America needs?” test. It’s unfortunate that the US electorate can be that low-brow but, yes, the beer buddy test is important, at least for Democrats. There are a lot of potential voters who vote with their guts because that’s pretty much the only way they make decisions of any type. The GOP has understood that for half a century, Trump perfected it, the Democrats were in denial and now Trump is president. Same thing happened for Brexit: Lots of educated, reasonably smart middle-class people thought that of course voters wouldn’t be that thoughtless, reckless and readily taken in by the dishonest/delusional/disgusting Leavers. It’s fairly dispiriting to realize and accept that. This will change over time and demographics. 2016 may have been the rednecks’ swine song. Right now, policy wonks like Warren or Hilary can still have an impact if they go for a cabinet post instead of trying to get elected president. Maybe this is what Warren is angling for. ---
**Author:** ![Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reindeer_flotilla/32/3024_2.png) [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/368 "2019-02-08T23:16:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That isn’t what happened at all. Not even remotely. Hmm, pretty sure that’s exactly what happened. > [@](#): > > And for the hell of it, I did a search. Sam has used “scold” five times on this MB outside of this thread. He used it for: Bruce Springsteen, Carter, Jon Stewart, Hillary and generically. I don’t think you proved what you intended to prove here. (Except for that generically person - my father never liked him). Yeah, I’m going to go with **Chronos** ’ interpretation as your dismissive non-answers to his questions hasn’t exactly convinced me his take is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/369 "2019-02-08T23:21:06Z")
On the topic of Elizabeth Warren: Representative Joe Kennedy III is endorsing her candidacy: > [@](#): > > Rep. Joe Kennedy III will endorse fellow Massachusetts Democrat Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president on Saturday, when she is expected to officially launch her 2020 campaign. > > According to multiple sources familiar with the plans, Kennedy – a former student of Warren’s – will introduce Warren and in part discuss why he believes Warren’s record on economic issues will set her apart from the rest of the field from Lawrence, Massachusetts. The Kennedy endorsement news was first reported by the Boston Globe. > Other members of the Massachusetts delegation will also speak at the rally, including Sen. Ed Markey … [https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/08/politics/joe-kennedy-iii-elizabeth-warren-presidential-bid/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/08/politics/joe-kennedy-iii-elizabeth-warren-presidential-bid/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/370 "2019-02-08T23:36:13Z")
> [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](#): > > Hmm, pretty sure that’s exactly what happened. > > I don’t think you proved what you intended to prove here. (Except for that generically person - my father never liked him). Yeah, I’m going to go with **Chronos** ’ interpretation as your dismissive non-answers to his questions hasn’t exactly convinced me his take is incorrect. So the fact that I used ‘scold’ to describe MEN three out of four times proves that I must have used it as a sexist term this time because a woman was the object? Or what exactly are you saying? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/371 "2019-02-09T04:39:29Z")
OK, so you didn’t use that term out of sexism. Maybe you just use the term “authoritarian scold” instead of its denotative synonym “strong leader” just for people you don’t like, or whose politics you disagree with. Or maybe you have some other criterion for preferring one synonym over the other. That’s why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/372 "2019-02-09T06:38:49Z")
Uh huh. I actually meant ‘scold’. It’s a very descriptive word. I’m sorry you don’t approve. Funny how this subject turned into a discussion of my personal motivations, once again. Here’s another very descriptive phrase: Ad-hominem, I hear it’s even frowned upon on some message boards. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/373 "2019-02-09T06:44:10Z")
So much scolding and meta-scolding here. tsk tsk tsk :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reindeer_flotilla/32/3024_2.png) [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/374 "2019-02-09T07:59:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Funny how this subject turned into a discussion of my personal motivations, once again. Here’s another very descriptive phrase: Ad-hominem, I hear it’s even frowned upon on some message boards. But this message board doesn’t seem to frown upon knowing the difference between personal motivations and ad-hominem fallacious arguments. I can see why you’re so frustrated with this one, even to the point that long-time contributors here are contributing to a related pit thread. And the fact that you’re interpreting the dissembling of your arguments as a personnel slight further shows your confusion on what constitutes an ad-hominen attack. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/375 "2019-02-09T11:14:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I didn’t bring up sexism first: RTFirefly did. Nah, in post #341, where I first mention your use of “authoritarian scold,” I noted that other posters had noted that it was a sexist slur, on my way to making my main point that “it’s substance-free both in its apparent meaning and in the lack of evidence marshaled in its support.” That you were pretending to say something meaningful about her, but you were really just calling her names. Haven’t seen a rebuttal to that. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Funny how this subject turned into a discussion of my personal motivations, once again. You started it. Post #346. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/376 "2019-02-09T12:12:38Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Defrauding whom, exactly? > > Self-identifying as an American Indian on that form didn’t get her any additional benefits, or increase the likelihood that she would. And it wasn’t a form that was supposed to be publicly disclosed. > > So, who was she defrauding? And how? She’s misappropriating an identity that doesn’t belong to her, and we already know that that form is not the only time she self-identified as Native American. That form is part of a pattern, which is to create ambiguity and claim membership to a community to an ethnic group to which she does not belong. The benefit is claiming to have an identity that she doesn’t have in reality, purporting to be something more than just a white limousine liberal, but as someone who also identifies with ethnic minorities. Why else would she make such claims about herself that are patently untrue? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/377 "2019-02-09T12:57:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > . The benefit is claiming to have an identity that she doesn’t have in reality, purporting to be something more than just a white limousine liberal, but as someone who also identifies with ethnic minorities. That’s not a benefit, that’s what she did. That’s like saying I wear a hat for the benefit of having a hat on my head. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/378 "2019-02-09T16:22:19Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > She’s misappropriating an identity that doesn’t belong to her, and we already know that that form is not the only time she self-identified as Native American. That form is part of a pattern, which is to create ambiguity and claim membership to a community to an ethnic group to which she does not belong. This \*\*confidential \*\*form played no part in that. You’ll have to make your case without it. Or you can pretend that she was somehow using it to make that impression _without anybody ever seeing it._ Wonder which forum is the right one for games of ‘let’s pretend.’ Thread Games, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/379 "2019-02-09T17:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > By Jess Bidgood Globe Staff February 09, 2019 > > LAWRENCE, Mass. — US Senator Elizabeth Warren, the law professor turned firebrand of the progressive left, made her run for the presidency official on Saturday, laying out a populist vision for the change needed to right an economy gone wrong that imbued her longtime focus on inequality with new liberal tenants like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal. > > Speaking on the steps of a hulking mill building, Warren kicked off her campaign with a history lesson about the immigrant women who had gone on strike inside more than a century ago to protest squalid labor conditions and dwindling pay, connecting themes of labor rights, immigration, and gender to her own campaign. > **[Elizabeth Warren makes presidential campaign official - The Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/02/09/elizabeth-warren-makes-presidential-campaign-official/jwVNitwYT1pJbuZTJMsihO/story.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983/380 "2019-02-09T18:41:30Z")
People are not seeing the forest for the trees here. It’s not the specifics of whatever it is that Warren may or may not have done to grasp at a thread of Native American identity. It’s the overall optics. And I’ll say again, she has no chance of getting out the black vote, being entangled in thing. As someone else pointed out, the _optics_ are Rachel Dolezal like. I think a good metric for a candidate’s electability, honestly, is to imagine what the average American would say if you asked them, “what is the ONE THING that comes to mind when you hear [candidate’s] name?” Joe Biden? “He was Obama’s VP.” We can work with that. Sherrod Brown? “Uh…I don’t know.” We can also work with that. A blank slate is better than a dirty one. Kamala Harris? “She’s…a black female senator…I think.” We can even work with that. Cory Booker? “He’s a young and outspoken black senator.” We can work with that. You all know damn well that the first thing to come to people’s mind if you said “Elizabeth Warren” is…“white lady who claimed to be an Indian.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/warren-forms-exploratory-committee/826983.md?page=20)