I know it was a joke. But Warren isn’t remotely a “super liberal” and as I said AOC isn’t at all one to watch in 2020, so it’s a dumb joke.
Yes, so he said. The problem is- he didnt call his dogs off. The bernie-bros continued attacking Hillary. Now they are starting on Beto- and Sanders just smiles and waves.
And he waiting until long past there was effectively no chance of him being nominated.
So, yeah,Hillary’s loss can partially be laid at the feet of Sanders.
“His” Bernie-bots? By that I assume you mean Putin’s?
It’s absurd to blame a candidate for what Russian trolls are saying about him.
In the recent attacks on Beto, there is solid proof the attackers are public Bernie supporters.
Nomiki Konst, a progressive activist and 2016 Sanders supporter who is now running for public advocate in New York City,…
It started with David Sirota, a liberal activist and journalist who worked for Sanders many years ago.
David Sirota posted on Facebook that voting for Beto O’Rourke : “…will mean death and pain for millions of people.”
https://theintercept.com/2018/09/26/...cate-election/
"She gained a national profile as a Bernie Sanders surrogate during the 2016 campaign, and then as his representative on the Democratic National Committee’s Unity Reform Commission. "
Am I the only Doper who’s happy about this?
Elizabeth Warren is the bridge between the Democratic Party and the Bernie progressives, and has been for years. Who else has a broad enough base?
She’s the obvious choice, and we need to knock off the absurd suggestions like running Beto O’Rourke.
If you are the only one happy, maybe she’s not the bridge you think she is. Just a thought.
I don’t know if this is a good idea.
Voters aren’t as cerebral as we’d like to believe, and only 1/4 of voters are liberals. Swing voters barely pay attention and don’t understand the issues. Will she appeal to them?
What happens when Trump insults her to her face and she responds by going into a graduate level discussion on economics in response? She isn’t going to win a lot of votes among high school educated whites, it’ll be worse than Hillary.
We need someone tough and willing to stand up to Trump to his face, who can make white people who believe in toxic masculinity feel safe like it or not.
OK, CarnalK, whom do you want to be the President? Or should I call you Mikey? Do you just hate everything?
I think it’s going to be a “Bernie or Bust” 2020… His supporters won’t vote for anyone except Sanders, and he has many.
What a topical reference. Lol.
I don’t think I need to have a preference this far out and I certainly don’t hate Warren. I think she’s a poor campaigner from what I’ve seen and thus a risky choice, bridge or no.
I’m happy about it.
At best, the number four reason behind Russian meddling, decades of Republican mud-slinging, and Clinton herself.
But anyway, as much as I like Warren, her she’s more of a fighter than a leader. I think she would make a great VP candidate, where she can work with the Senate and take a lot of the heat for the administration. She can be the Bad Cop. The Good Cop needs to be someone who is progressive but likeable and less scolding. That could be Beto, maybe, or someone else. Maybe even Biden. But not Warren or Sanders.
:dubious:
Geoff Diehl, a state legislator who co-chaired Trump’s 2016 campaign in Massachusetts was the one running for the senate seat there against Warren in the previous election, she turned him into minced meat.
While usually a liberal state, one has to notice that the Governor in Massachusetts is a Republican, so it is not a sure thing that voters there would had gone for Warren.
And black people, who often hold views which are, let’s say, more parochial than college-educated white liberals would find comfortable. I’m not going to use the phrase “toxic masculinity” which I believe to be a stupid buzzword, but I think that blue-collar black men have more in common with blue-collar white men than a lot of people realize.
Warren will not resonate with these voters at all, in my opinion.
I like Warren. I’d certainly vote for her over Trump in the general, and if I were sure that whoever the Democratic nominee was would beat Trump, I’d probably vote for her in the primary, too. But that’s far from a given, and so I’d need to be convinced that she’s electable in the general.
No, he means the Bernie Sanders who repeatedly pushed the idea that there was a conspiracy in the Democratic Party to get Clinton elected, asserted some level of voting fraud, and then refused to concede and drop out even after it was clear he had no chance of winning.
Sure, afterwards he pushed for Clinton. But, before that, he was all about using less than savory tactics to split the base. I tend to think he just didn’t realize how bad it could be–that he didn’t plan ahead of the most likely result that he was going to lose. Maybe he got overwhelmed by things going more favorably towards him than predicted, or, like many, severely underestimated Trump and thought Clinton would be so far ahead it wouldn’t matter.
Still, I don’t trust his judgment on this sort of thing–especially since he definitely seems to be running himself. Whatever bad stuff there is about Clinton, at least she gets that she should stay out of this.
With Warren, I worry the Native American thing has soured her both with moderates, since Trump can attack her on it, and with progressives, who are against appropriation, and thus easily targeted with her past and then not just apologizing and letting it die. Plus anyone who lets Trump goad them into doing anything may not be trusted.
I know that maybe people think Trump is so bad these smaller things wouldn’t matter. But that’s literally all they attacked Clinton on.
Sure, I like her better than Sanders or Biden. But I sure hope she’s not the best we’ve got.
And there are many who wont vote for him under any circumstances.
My statement about toxic masculinity is about how lots of people don’t want someone who is unable to defend themselves or other people. If Trump insults Warren to her face and she just smiles and goes on a rant about economics that is over people’s heads, that won’t work. But Bernie would do the same thing. Sadly the American people love bullying, if they didn’t then Judge Judy wouldn’t be a multi millionaire and Simon Cowell wouldn’t have a TV show.
I remember when Sanders couldn’t connect with the black community, I’d go looking for blogs and websites by black people discussing why Sanders didn’t connect.
They made a lot of good points, among others:
-
Whites run the gamut of politics, and they have different political parties to reflect that. Whites can be libertarians, constitution party, GOP, democrat, Green, DSA, etc. Blacks are all pretty much democrats, despite them having a huge ideological spectrum just like whites. And like whites, only about 1/4-1/3 of them are liberals.
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Blacks, due to being locked out of the mainstream economy for centuries, have a stronger respect for entrepreneurism. The anti-business talk from the liberal wing of the democratic party doesn’t resonate with them as well.
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Blacks are as you said more socially conservative. Abortion, religion, guns, drugs, gender, LGBT rights, etc. are issues where they are generally to the right of liberals.
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centuries of people promising the moon and failing to deliver has made black voters more cynical about someone promising radical change that’ll make everyone’s lives better. Thats more a luxury that upper middle class white people get to indulge in.
etc.
Having said all that, from what I remember of exit polls Hillary did just as well as Obama did among black female voters, but she didn’t win black male voters nearly as much. I believe Obama won 95% of black male voters, but Hillary only got about 82%. Female voters were about 96% for both candidates. There is a gender gap among voters of all races, but for Obama the gender gap disappeared, then came back for Hillary. But then again, maybe it would’ve came back for a white democrat too. I don’t know what the 2004 exit polls for black voters were or if there was a gender gap there too.
The vast majority of us Sanders voters ended up voting for Hillary and were perfectly happy with the idea of her as president. It’d be much better than what we have now.
I’ve also said before that, in my lifetime, the person who has the more stern, less personable personality has always lost. The stiff upper lip types lose.
Granted, before I phrased it as “the most personable.” But Trump doesn’t quite fit that. But he definitely doesn’t come across as elitist (even though he clearly is). He’s said to “say it like it is.”
We can’t do the whole politically incorrect thing, but we can be charming like Obama, Bush, Clinton, and Reagan were.
Sure, in an ideal world, her personality would be seen by everyone as vastly superior to Trump’s, even if you’d prefer someone more warm. But we saw what happened with Clinton on that.