# Wars and uniform colors **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811 "2004-06-30T01:56:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GreyWanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@GreyWanderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreyWanderer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/1 "2004-06-30T01:56:52Z")
I’ve been thinking a bit about how soldiers avoid killing eachothers in war. Usually both sides dress up in their own kind of uniform, so they are easy to tell from eachother. Has it ever happened that they for some reason had the same uniforms. Wouldn’t that make things really difficult? I suppose sometimes people have tried to sneak into the other side using their uniform, but that kind of thing is never shown in movies. ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/2 "2004-06-30T02:49:05Z")
During the Battle of the Bulge German soldiers did in fact infiltrate the American lines while wearing American uniforms, and I’m sure it was mentioned in the movie. Other than that, friendly fire kills quite a few even when armies wear different uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/3 "2004-06-30T02:57:15Z")
Interestingly, there was a lot confusion with uniforms in the US Civil War. Especially near the beginning of the war, many units wore the uniforms of their own state militias. Therefore, there were quite a few soldiers from Northern states in various shades of grey, and some soldiers from the South wore blue. For example, some say that an important factor at 1st Bull Run was an advance by a Southern unit who all were wearing blue uniforms, and therefore were not fired upon as quickly as possible by McDowell’s forces, especially by artillery. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/4 "2004-06-30T06:36:23Z")
> [@hermann](#): > > During the Battle of the Bulge German soldiers did in fact infiltrate the American lines while wearing American uniforms, and I’m sure it was mentioned in the movie. Other than that, friendly fire kills quite a few even when armies wear different uniforms. The Brandenbergers, German commandos during WWII, were trained to camoflage themselves as enemy soldiers, as well as peasants or whatever was needed for the mission. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/5 "2004-06-30T07:01:43Z")
I recall reading about a war/minor skirmish between 2 neighboring Central American countries, who both had supplied their army using surplus US military uniforms. So they were basically wearing the same uniforms. As I recall, the battle took place over a bridge or border crossing, so it was pretty much ‘shoot at the guys on the other side’, and the matching uniforms didn’t matter much. If the armies eventually they advanced into each other, and the neat battle lines broke down into skirmishing groups of soldiers, all wearing the same uniforms, it might have mattered. I don’t remember enough about this to know if that happened. P.S. I do remember that this battle started over a soccer match between teams from the 2 countries! ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/6 "2004-06-30T07:53:16Z")
The [Soccer War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_War) was fought in 1969 between El Salvador & Honduras. And I bet you thought British hooligans were bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/7 "2004-06-30T14:48:01Z")
**Lambchops** , the confusion during the First Manassas (Bull Run) was due not only to the blue uniforms worn by the approaching reinforcements, but also to the fact that the Confederates carried the “[Stars and Bars](http://www.mlc.lib.ms.us/trivia/flags/stars_bars.gif)” flag (not the more familiar [Confederate battle flag](http://www.civil-war-tribute.com/battleflag.jpg)), which was easily confused at a distance with the [flag of the Union](http://www.illinoiscivilwar.org/civil_flag.gif). ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/8 "2004-06-30T14:49:17Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > P.S. I do remember that this battle started over a soccer match between teams from the 2 countries! [Not really](http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/sierra/soccer1969.htm): > [@](#): > > By 1969 some 300,000 Salvadorans had drifted over the border and taken up residence in more sparsely populated Honduras. The vast majority of these Salvadorans were squatters, technically illegal immigrants whose sole claim to the land they worked was their physical presence on it. > > \ > > The border situation became increasingly tense during the two years preceding the outbreak of hostilities. In early 1969, the regime of Honduran president Oswaldo Lopez Arellano (1963-71) invoked a dormant agrarian reform law as a pretext to evict Salvadoran squatters and expel them from the country. The Lopez government was experiencing economic and political difficulties and saw the Salvadorans as convenient scapegoats. Stories and images of displaced refugees filled the Salvadoran press and the airwaves. Tales of violent displacement by the Honduran military began to circulate throughout El Salvador. Tension between the two countries continued to build. The incident that provoked active hostilities–and lent the conflict its popular designation as the Football War–took place in San Salvador in June 1969. During and after a soccer match between the Honduran and Salvadoran national teams, the Honduran team members were vilified and harassed by Salvadoran fans. The reportage of this incident brought matters to a fever pitch. The soccer match only stoked deep, pre-existing tensions between the two nations–it wasn’t the cause of the war, even though the violence surrounding the match pushed things past the boiling point. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/9 "2004-06-30T15:55:09Z")
I don’t know much about identifying enemy individuals. However, I do know that enemy aircraft are identified by silhouette and behavior and not by insiginias or markings such as color. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/10 "2004-06-30T16:05:20Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I don’t know much about identifying enemy individuals. However, I do know that enemy aircraft are identified by silhouette and behavior and not by insiginias or markings such as color. Enemy and friendly aircraft are also identified by transponder signal - known as an IFF (“Identify Friend or Foe”) system. During the recent Iraq war an RAF Tornado fighter’s IFF system malfunctioned and it was shot down by an American Patriot missile system, killing the crew. If I recall, a week or so later a US Navy F/A-18 Hornet either suffered the same fate or came close - anyone with more time on their hands (I’m at work) able to find concrete info? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/11 "2004-07-01T03:26:57Z")
> [@Kilt-wearin' man](#): > > Enemy and friendly aircraft are also identified by transponder signal - known as an IFF (“Identify Friend or Foe”) system. During the recent Iraq war an RAF Tornado fighter’s IFF system malfunctioned and it was shot down by an American Patriot missile system, killing the crew. If I recall, a week or so later a US Navy F/A-18 Hornet either suffered the same fate or came close - anyone with more time on their hands (I’m at work) able to find concrete info? Yeah, I was speaking of past methods. It used to be that a missile wasn’t fired at a target in air-to-air cases without a visual ID. It would appear that it has been decided somewhere up in the stratospheric levels of command that an occasional shoot-down of frendlies by ground based air defense units, because of various equipment failures, is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![tadc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@tadc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tadc)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wars-and-uniform-colors/252811/12 "2004-07-01T03:52:15Z")
> [@Kilt-wearin' man](#): > > Enemy and friendly aircraft are also identified by transponder signal - known as an IFF (“Identify Friend or Foe”) system. During the recent Iraq war an RAF Tornado fighter’s IFF system malfunctioned and it was shot down by an American Patriot missile system, killing the crew. If I recall, a week or so later a US Navy F/A-18 Hornet either suffered the same fate or came close From what I’ve heard/read, an IFF malfunction is all it takes for a friendly plane to be identified as an enemy missle. Here’s a couple links: [http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030329-patriot01.htm](http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030329-patriot01.htm) > **[Patriot missile: friend or foe?](https://www.theregister.com/2004/05/20/patriot_missile/)** > > RAF Tornado downed, questions unanswered The linked articles also mention how the US government blatently lied about the efficacy of the Patriot during the first Gulf War. I remember a Bush I speech where he claimed 40-odd missles destroyed by Patriots, but in reality it’s doubtful if any were destroyed.