# Was 1988 the most negative election in recent history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028 "2015-06-09T01:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/21 "2015-06-09T23:14:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This was the only time I ever voted for a guy knowing full well he was going to lose. Did you vote for Mondale in 1984? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/22 "2015-06-09T23:36:35Z")
What exactly \*could \* Dukakis have said in response to the Willie Horton ad? Saying, “That’s racist!” might have only furthered the impact of the ad. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/23 "2015-06-10T00:07:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Did you vote for Mondale in 1984? Of course. I was convinced the public could see through Reagan after four years. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/24 "2015-06-10T00:19:21Z")
Dukakis was a awful candidate, a terrible choice and he proved it quite well. His own campaign hurt him as much as the very nasty Horton ad. Doesn’t anyone remember him in the tank. That image did more to cost him the campaign than the Horton ad and it was his own campaign that created the embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/25 "2015-06-10T01:24:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What exactly \*could \* Dukakis have said in response to the Willie Horton ad? Saying, “That’s racist!” might have only furthered the impact of the ad. A better approach might have been to challenge some of the factual basis, like for example that he didn’t start the furlough program. Of course, that might have actually made things worse, since he vetoed a bill that would have prevented murderers like Horton from receiving furloughs. Dukakis vetoed it because he believed it helped with rehabilitation. That kind of soft on crime stance doomed him and I’m actually surprised he wasn’t better vetted given how long the primary was. That’s the other problem with the Willie Horton issue. No Democrat wanted to raise the issue because that would have been toxic for whichever Democrat brought it up. So it got left there to be brought up by a Republican, for whom the issue is far less problematic. It was still irresponsible for fellow Democrats to let the furlough program and Dukakis’ support of it fly, however. According to Wikipedia, Al Gore actually did try to raise the issue, but he didn’t go for the jugular by mentioning Horton in particular: The first person to mention the Massachusetts furlough program in the 1988 presidential campaign was Al Gore. During a debate before the New York primary, Gore took issue with the furlough program. However, he did not specifically mention the Horton incident or even his name, instead asking a general question about the Massachusetts furlough program.[10] > **[Willie Horton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton)** > > William R. Horton (born August 12, 1951), commonly referred to as "Willie Horton", is an American convicted murderer who was the subject of a major political controversy in the 1988 presidential election. Horton had committed violent crimes while on furlough from prison, where he was serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for murder. Released for a weekend as the beneficiary of a Massachusetts furlough program, he failed to return, and was later recaptured and convicted of c ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/26 "2015-06-10T01:28:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Of course. I was convinced the public could see through Reagan after four years. The public knew exactly who Reagan was in 1984 and they liked him anyway. It’s not like Reagan pulled the wool over anyone’s eyes like Obama did when he promised to be a different kind of politician. Reagan was perfectly happy to flaunt his disinterest in details, his love of symbolism over substance, and his conservativeness. And the results of Reagan’s policies were well understood by 1984: big deficits, a huge arms buildup, a muscular foreign policy, and tax cuts for the rich. No one was confused on these points. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/27 "2015-06-10T11:50:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Then why did Jackson come away from it without the prez nomination, without even the Veep nomination? What did he get? The 1988 convention featured red Jesse signs in abundance for the first 3 days. Jackson was mentioned in just about every speech. He was given his own day at the convention on the 3rd day. I’d have to go back and watch his speech again, I do remember , while he endorsed Dukakis/Bentsen, it was a very much Jesse focused speech. I think Jackson wanted to use the convention in 1988 to show that he was a ‘real’ candidate and not a fringe player. He certainly wanted to be a major player in 1992, but Clinton refused to be led around by the nose. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/28 "2015-06-10T11:58:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The public knew exactly who Reagan was in 1984 and they liked him anyway. It’s not like Reagan pulled the wool over anyone’s eyes like Obama did when he promised to be a different kind of politician. Reagan was perfectly happy to flaunt his disinterest in details, his love of symbolism over substance, and his conservativeness. And the results of Reagan’s policies were well understood by 1984: big deficits, a huge arms buildup, a muscular foreign policy, and tax cuts for the rich. No one was confused on these points. They knew what he stood for, they should have known how utterly disastrous those policies were. And please, Obama didn’t pull the wool over anyone’s eyes. He tried to be a post-partisan president. He tried to work with Republicans. But they met in secrete before he was in office for 8 hours and made a pact to never cooperate with him on any issue. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/29 "2015-06-10T12:00:32Z")
I was there in 1988 and I don’t recall any character assassination as vile as the Swiftboating in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/30 "2015-06-10T12:21:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That was thought to be the best strategy at the time. It wasn’t. I noted in the Clinton thread that her response to all the negative coverage has also been to just sort of not respond and try to wait it out. Maybe she’ll have better luck with that strategy. > [@adaher](#): > > The public knew exactly who Reagan was in 1984 and they liked him anyway. It’s not like Reagan pulled the wool over anyone’s eyes like Obama did when he promised to be a different kind of politician. Nice - a Clinton attack in a comment about Dukakis, and an Obama attack in a comment about Reagan. You just can’t help yourself, can you. > [@adaher](#): > > That’s another debate that’ll get us modded.🙂 Then why do you keep doing it? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/31 "2015-06-10T12:26:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was there in 1988 and I don’t recall any character assassination as vile as the Swiftboating in 2004. The Swiftboating was horrific, to be sure. But the Willie Horton ad was a shameless appeal to racism. It’s one thing to degrade someone’s military service, it’s another thing to exploit racial fears and hatred. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/32 "2015-06-10T12:48:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A better approach might have been to challenge some of the factual basis, like for example that he didn’t start the furlough program. True, Frank Sargent, a liberal Republican from the time there was such a thing, did. > [@](#): > > Of course, that might have actually made things worse, since he vetoed a bill that would have prevented murderers like Horton from receiving furloughs. Dukakis vetoed it because he believed it helped with rehabilitation. That kind of soft on crime stance doomed him and I’m actually surprised he wasn’t better vetted given how long the primary was. Such vetting would have shown that the furlough program dramatically \*reduced \*recidivism rates. How is that “soft on crime” except in a way that your party could have made appealing to low-information, low-curiosity voters? > [@](#): > > So it got left there to be brought up by a Republican, for whom the issue is far less problematic. It was still irresponsible for fellow Democrats to let the furlough program and Dukakis’ support of it fly, however. It was irresponsible not to hit back with a Truth Squad approach. The facts, with only slight examination, are strongly in favor of the furlough program, and it was typically weak-kneed of them to cancel it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/33 "2015-06-10T12:52:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They knew what he stood for, they should have known how utterly disastrous those policies were. That was the basic problem for Democrats in 1984 - the voters did know Reagan, and they had seen the results of his policies. That’s why he was re-elected by the largest electoral margin in history. The Democrats had nothing to offer besides “who are you going to believe - me, or your own eyes?” With the observed results. In 1980, the question was "are you better off now than you were four years ago?’ And the answer was No. In 1984, it was the same question. And the answer was "Hell yes!’ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/34 "2015-06-10T12:55:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In 1980, the question was "are you better off now than you were four years ago?’ And the answer was No. In 1984, it was the same question. And the answer was "Hell yes!’ > > Regards, > Shodan It’s pretty much the question every presidential election. In 1988 the answer was not particularly clear; in 1992 it was definitely No, and so on and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/35 "2015-06-10T14:46:51Z")
As Cheney pointed out, “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.” He kept asking for a balanced-budget amendment but had the least-balanced budgets in history. Somehow the Republicans _still_ have a widespread image as the party of fiscal responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/36 "2015-06-10T15:35:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But the Willie Horton ad was a shameless appeal to racism. It’s one thing to degrade someone’s military service, it’s another thing to exploit racial fears and hatred. This - and other posts like it in this thread - are historical revisionism. The Bush campaign never ran a Willie Horton ad. They ran a “revolving door” ad which did not feature or mention Willie Horton, and which featured both black and white actors walking through a revolving door. An outside group very briefly ran an ad featuring Willie Horton himself. Most of the attention that ad got was the result of liberals and their allies in the media trying to impugn any criticism of Dukakis’ actions WRT the furlough program as being racist. Their approach essentially amounted to “furlough = Willie Horton = racist dogwhistle”, and the focus on that ad helped to make it work. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/37 "2015-06-10T15:46:55Z")
How “recent”? The 1972 election was pretty negative. So was the 1976 Republican primary season – the Reaganites made the Republican National Convention that year quite incredibly, astonishingly ugly. You can read the story in [_The Invisible Bridge: The Fall of Nixon and the Rise of Reagan,_](http://www.amazon.com/The-Invisible-Bridge-Nixon-Reagan/dp/1491534737) by Rick Perlstein. (Reagan himself was an ugly person, too, I never knew how ugly until I read that book.) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/38 "2015-06-10T15:49:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This - and other posts like it in this thread - are historical revisionism. > > The Bush campaign never ran a Willie Horton ad. They ran a “revolving door” ad which did not feature or mention Willie Horton, and which featured both black and white actors walking through a revolving door. An outside group very briefly ran an ad featuring Willie Horton himself. Most of the attention that ad got was the result of liberals and their allies in the media trying to impugn any criticism of Dukakis’ actions WRT the furlough program as being racist. Their approach essentially amounted to “furlough = Willie Horton = racist dogwhistle”, and the focus on that ad helped to make it work. [This video offers a fair assessment.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTdUQ9SYhUw) And they did indeed run a [Willie Horton ad.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/39 "2015-06-10T16:24:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [This video offers a fair assessment.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTdUQ9SYhUw) And they did indeed run a [Willie Horton ad.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y) Unfortunately, my employer just recently sent out an email informing everyone that they are closely monitoring all YouTube and social media usage, so I can’t view these links. However based on everything else I’ve seen, the Bush campaign did not run the Willie Horton ad. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/40 "2015-06-10T16:28:51Z")
No problem, but I’d like to know your opinion after you get home and get a chance to view. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028.md?page=3)