# Was 1988 the most negative election in recent history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028 "2015-06-09T01:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/41 "2015-06-10T16:44:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > And they did indeed run a [Willie Horton ad.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y) No, the Bush campaign did not run the ad. Your own cite says, > [@](#): > > This ad was ran by the National Security PAC, not directly by the Bush/Quayle campaign. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/42 "2015-06-10T16:56:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the Bush campaign did not run the ad. Your own cite says,Regards, > Shodan OK, it wasn’t run BY Bush, it was run FOR Bush. I’m not going to pretend these “independent” PACs absolve the candidate from responsibility of what is aired on his behalf. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/43 "2015-06-10T16:59:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This - and other posts like it in this thread - are historical revisionism. > > The Bush campaign never ran a Willie Horton ad. They ran a “revolving door” ad which did not feature or mention Willie Horton, and which featured both black and white actors walking through a revolving door. An outside group very briefly ran an ad featuring Willie Horton himself. Most of the attention that ad got was the result of liberals and their allies in the media trying to impugn any criticism of Dukakis’ actions WRT the furlough program as being racist. Their approach essentially amounted to “furlough = Willie Horton = racist dogwhistle”, and the focus on that ad helped to make it work. Talk about historical revisionism! I can’t find anyone before your post claiming the Bush campaign ran the ad, just that the ad was run, so you’re responding to something that nobody claimed. The opening post asked generally if it was the most nasty election without making the convenient exclusion you’re trying to make. That ad was indeed part of the election no matter who ran it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/44 "2015-06-10T17:13:07Z")
> [@theR](#): > > Talk about historical revisionism! I can’t find anyone before your post claiming the Bush campaign ran the ad, just that the ad was run, so you’re responding to something that nobody claimed. > > The opening post asked generally if it was the most nasty election without making the convenient exclusion you’re trying to make. That ad was indeed part of the election no matter who ran it. I agree. However, ads that are run by the campaign themselves are a bigger focus and more rightly characterize the campaign than ads run by outside groups. My point was that that particular ad would have been a relatively minor part of the campaign, both because it was run by an outside group and because it was run for a very short time, were it not for the focus on whether it was or wasn’t a racist. When the main focus on an ad is whether it was racist or not, it doesn’t qualify the campaign as the most negative ever IMO. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/45 "2015-06-10T17:37:14Z")
I don’t have any stats on how often the PAC Willie Horton ad aired but it was indeed unquestionably racially motivated. The revolving door puts a little fig leaf on its naked race baiting. Only one black guy. But notice he’s the only one looking at the camera. He’s the only one you notice. And he’s the only one you’re supposed to notice. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/46 "2015-06-10T18:44:55Z")
[Atwater’s deathbed confession:](http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/13/us/gravely-ill-atwater-offers-apology.html) > [@](#): > > “In 1988,” Mr. Atwater said, “fighting Dukakis, I said that I ‘would strip the bark off the little bastard’ and ‘make Willie Horton his running mate.’ I am sorry for both statements: the first for its naked cruelty, the second because it makes me sound racist, which I am not.” It’s remarkable to come across anyone who thinks PAC’s do not coordinate with their candidates just because there’s a law against it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/47 "2015-06-10T18:55:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t have any stats on how often the PAC Willie Horton ad aired but it was indeed unquestionably racially motivated. The revolving door puts a little fig leaf on its naked race baiting. Only one black guy. But notice he’s the only one looking at the camera. He’s the only one you notice. And he’s the only one you’re supposed to notice. I don’t agree at all that the Willie Horton ad was racially motivated. It’s true that Horton was a Scary Looking Black Guy, but while there’s a lot of racial prejudice out there, there’s no reason to assume that people are comfortable being killed by murderers out on furlough as long as they’re white, and thus no reason to assume the ad was playing to anything other than fear of crime. But even leaving that aside, if you’re going to characterize a campaign as the most negative ever based on an ad, the question of how frequently that ad ran and how widely broadcasted it was are crucial to the issue and can’t be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/48 "2015-06-10T19:21:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s remarkable to come across anyone who thinks PAC’s do not coordinate with their candidates just because there’s a law against it. About as remarkable as a partisan who knows the difference between evidence and allegations. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/49 "2015-06-10T19:24:11Z")
The guy who did it admitted it. What else do you want? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/50 "2015-06-10T19:25:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > there’s no reason to assume that people are comfortable being killed by murderers out on furlough as long as they’re white, and thus no reason to assume the ad was playing to anything other than fear of crime. Then why have the ad show his blackness instead of discussing his crime on a non-visceral level? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/51 "2015-06-10T19:29:19Z")
The ad was definitely playing to emotion. The most effective ads do that. The only question was which emotion: fear or crime or fear of Scary Looking Black Guys? As above, I don’t see any reason at all to assume the latter. But you can’t ask why the ad didn’t discuss crime in a non-visceral way. That’s a non-starter. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/52 "2015-06-10T19:33:05Z")
Part of the problem was that Dukakis’ idea of how to look butch and counter all the stuff about his being soft on crime and the military was to pop up out of a tank like Whack-a-mole. It’s hard to blame that one on Lee Atwater. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/53 "2015-06-10T19:34:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The only question was which emotion: fear or crime or fear of Scary Looking Black Guys? As above, I don’t see any reason at all to assume the latter. You know how Atwater thought. [Here’s how he described the Southern Strategy](http://www.thenation.com/article/170841/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy), by way of demonstration. Now try again. > [@](#): > > But you can’t ask why the ad didn’t discuss crime in a non-visceral way. That’s a non-starter. Why can a significant social problem not be discussed rationally? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/54 "2015-06-10T20:29:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why can a significant social problem not be discussed rationally? :dubious: Because crime is a visceral issue for Republicans, and race is a visceral issue for Democrats. Therefore neither side is interested in rational discussion. And no, the Democrats are not any better. Dukakis tried to counter the Horton ad [with a commercial about a heroin addict who escaped from a halfway house and raped and murdered a woman](http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/25/us/bush-says-dukakis-s-desperation-prompted-accusations-of-racism.html). But somehow commercials about scary Hispanics aren’t racist. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/55 "2015-06-10T20:54:33Z")
Interesting cite there. Did you realize it included this? > [@](#): > > At one point the candidate’s advertising strategist, Roger Ailes, joked that the campaign’s only question was whether to depict Mr. Horton ‘‘with a knife in his hand or without it.’’ Although the campaign ended up not using Mr. Horton’s picture in its commercials of prisoners going through a revolving door, ‘‘third party’’ television advertising paid for by Republican groups does use his photograph -which Mr. Bush said today he did not mind. ‘‘I stand fully behind these ads,’’ he told reporters on Air Force Two. Just so you all know. Odd that nobody seems to remember anything about the heroin dealer ads, isn’t it? Or is willing to call them an effort to expose Bush’s hypocrisy, and that of his supporters. > [@](#): > > Because crime is a visceral issue for Republicans, and race is a visceral issue for Democrats. Therefore neither side is interested in rational discussion. Oh, please. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/56 "2015-06-10T20:55:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You know how Atwater thought. [Here’s how he described the Southern Strategy](http://www.thenation.com/article/170841/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy), by way of demonstration. > > Now try again. No need. You’ve added nothing. > [@](#): > > Why can a significant social problem not be discussed rationally? :dubious: It can be. But ads are more effective if they have visceral appeal, and if you forgo them you will lose to someone who doesn’t. So no one does. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/57 "2015-06-10T20:59:18Z")
I was barely two years old so I don’t remember it either and by coincidence I just was thinking what it was like to live through it the other day. Interesting reading about the election from fellow Dopers. My hunch has always been that George HW Bush was one boring president in terms of personality. Can anyone confirm? ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/58 "2015-06-10T21:04:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Nobody knew in 1988 that the USSR would soon be history, and it had jack shit to do with Reagan. Mr. Bush himself had rightly called out Reagan’s economic policies as “voodoo economics”. The question that we should have been asking was do we continue to pretend there is a free lunch and keep eating it or do we get back on the road to sanity? > > As filthy a campaign as it was, Bush was a decently competent president, easily the best Republican president since Ike. More competent than Reagan if I may ask? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/59 "2015-06-10T21:08:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No need. You’ve added nothing. I’ll take that as a grudging concession. :dubious: > [@](#): > > It can be. Then it’s not a “non-starter”, is it? > [@](#): > > But ads are more effective if they have visceral appeal, and if you forgo them you will lose to someone who doesn’t. So no one does. Then you also concede that it was an attempt to appeal viscerally. Let’s not have any more handwringing from you deploring the low state of electoral politics, either. Looks like you’ve gone as far as you’re going to here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028/60 "2015-06-10T21:33:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because crime is a visceral issue for Republicans, and race is a visceral issue for . . . . . . Republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-1988-the-most-negative-election-in-recent-history/722028.md?page=4)