# Was 70's standup comedy really as horrid as Norm Crosby's Comedy Shop makes it seem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 6, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125 "2019-06-06T17:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/1 "2019-06-06T17:13:39Z")
I often switch over to ME-TV, AKA the channel most likely to be heard in the background when you phone your grandmother, hoping to catch an episode of Cannon or Night Gallery or something similar, and often stumble upon this trainwreck. It’s a mix of well-known and up-and-coming stand-ups all doing an interchangeable two-minutes of the most generic, cornpone one-liners, intercut with multiple reaction shots of the most bizarre cross section of humanity in the audience, keeled over in fits of laughter at bits that wouldn’t play in the worst comedy clubs of today. I understand humor is subjective, and obviously there are restrictions on what can be said on a syndicated TV show in 1979, but has stand-up really evolved so much in the last 40 years? Pryor is an undeniable legend, and Carlin, while not my taste, is an idol to many many funny people, so I’ll give him his due (I never got over the fact that two of the “seven dirty words” are variations on the same word), but other that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/2 "2019-06-06T17:26:57Z")
Steve Martin, Robin Williams, Steven Wright, Sam Kinison, and a multitude of others populated the comedy circuit in the 70’s. What populated _Norm Crosby’s Comedy shop_ was a wide assortment of newbies, has-beens and never-wases that couldn’t get regular gigs. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/3 "2019-06-06T17:46:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Steve Martin, Robin Williams, Steven Wright, Sam Kinison, and a multitude of others populated the comedy circuit in the 70’s. What populated _Norm Crosby’s Comedy shop_ was a wide assortment of newbies, has-beens and never-wases that couldn’t get regular gigs. Wright and Kinison were 80s acts. Robert Klein, Franklin Ajaye, Tom Dreesen were 70s. Klein is a hero of mine but I think in the 70s the edge was represented by SNL and the Lampoon. SNL notably didn’t have many stand ups as hosts. Stand ups were from the old school then, the tonight show crowd. Letterman was the best in the mid 70s. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/4 "2019-06-06T17:54:03Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > I understand humor is subjective, and obviously there are restrictions on what can be said on a syndicated TV show in 1979, but has stand-up really evolved so much in the last 40 years? Yes, yes it has. The 70s were a growth period for the modern comics who could be much more offensive and controversial. There were leaders in the change like Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, but many more variety of styles emerged in that period. Sometimes the material itself had barely changed but was presented with more energy. Absurdism grew more popular, I think a generation raised on television understood the irony better. I’ve seen some clips from the Norm Crosby show, there’s a mix of quality and schlock humor in there. The cultural vs. chronological decade definition affects the way to describe this. The Crosby show represented 60s humor, which developed in the mid 60s and ran into the mid-70s, well characterized by Laugh-In. The 80s humor emerged with shows like SNL and movies like Used Cars and Animal House in the mid-70s. There really wasn’t much distinct 70s-only humor in between. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/5 "2019-06-06T17:56:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, yes it has. The 70s were a growth period for the modern comics who could be much more offensive and controversial. There were leaders in the change like Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, but many more variety of styles emerged in that period. Sometimes the material itself had barely changed but was presented with more energy. Absurdism grew more popular, I think a generation raised on television understood the irony better. > > I’ve seen some clips from the Norm Crosby show, there’s a mix of quality and schlock humor in there. The cultural vs. chronological decade definition affects the way to describe this. The Crosby show represented 60s humor, which developed in the mid 60s and ran into the mid-70s, well characterized by Laugh-In. The 80s humor emerged with shows like SNL and movies like Used Cars and Animal House in the mid-70s. There really wasn’t much distinct 70s-only humor in between. Interesting points- thanks! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/6 "2019-06-06T18:05:36Z")
I also would suspect that, when comedians like Pryor or Carlin were on a show like that, you may not have been seeing their best stuff (at least in part because a lot of their best stuff was too blue for broadcast TV). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/7 "2019-06-06T18:16:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > … Franklin Ajaye… …told one of my favorite jokes. Kids, you have to be familiar with a '70’s show called The Wide World Of Sports, here. This joke is about “The agony of defeat guy”. Agony of defeat guy is crouched in a skier’s stance at the starting gate. He looks to the starter and says: “Hey man, I ain’t never skied before.” Your mind then provided the punchline, which was spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/8 "2019-06-06T18:45:00Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > …told one of my favorite jokes. Kids, you have to be familiar with a '70’s show called The Wide World Of Sports, here. This joke is about “The agony of defeat guy”. Agony of defeat guy is crouched in a skier’s stance at the starting gate. He looks to the starter and says: “Hey man, I ain’t never skied before.” > Your mind then provided the punchline, which was spectacular. Here’s an interesting article I read on the agony of defeat guy a while back- > **[Whatever happened to 'agony of defeat' ski jumper?](https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/17310907/happened-agony-defeat-ski-jumper)** > > Vinko Bogataj gained fame after his wipeout became an iconic part of "ABC's Wide World of Sports." Find out what he's up to these days and what he remembers about his "agony of defeat" moment. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/9 "2019-06-08T00:52:48Z")
Most importantly, in the Chicagoland area, _Norm Crosby’s Comedy Shop_ was a watchable amuse buche between _Son of Svengoolie_ and the original _Saturday Night Live_ and to follow was _SCTV_ and _Sha Na Na_. A quick nap during _The Guinness Games_ left you well rested for _Tales of the Unexpected_. Truly, a televisual feast. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/10 "2019-06-08T01:06:04Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Here’s an interesting article I read on the agony of defeat guy a while back- I don’t remember what comedian made this comment: “You know how hard athletes train all their lives for hours every day? Working their hearts out, hoping for a chance to make the Olympics? Imagine making the Olympics, and then, after all that work, for the rest of your life, you’re known as ‘The-Agony-of-Defeat’ guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/11 "2019-06-08T14:15:42Z")
Most of the cast and crew of the original Saturday Night Live came from Canadian stand-up clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/12 "2019-06-08T15:48:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Most of the cast and crew of the original Saturday Night Live came from Canadian stand-up clubs. None of them did. Several came from the Toronto Second City \*improv \*group, though. Improv is almost the exact opposite of stand-up. There have been very few true stand-up comics in SNL’s history. They tend to do badly, although Eddie Murphy is a big exception. Stand-up comedy and sketch comedy are wildly different forms, and most people find that it’s hard to go between them easily. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/13 "2019-06-08T17:07:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > None of them did. Several came from the Toronto Second City \*improv \*group, though. Improv is almost the exact opposite of stand-up. > > There have been very few true stand-up comics in SNL’s history. They tend to do badly, although Eddie Murphy is a big exception. Stand-up comedy and sketch comedy are wildly different forms, and most people find that it’s hard to go between them easily. Yeah, none of the original cast were standups, but lots of other SNL alums were. Norm MacDonald, Joe Piscopo, Eddie Murphy, Dennis Miller, Michael Che, Kevin Nealon, Chris Rock, David Spade, Colin Quinn, Billy Crystal, Jay Mohr, Dana Carvey, and probably a few more I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/14 "2019-06-08T18:02:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, none of the original cast were standups, but lots of other SNL alums were. Norm MacDonald, Joe Piscopo, Eddie Murphy, Dennis Miller, Michael Che, Kevin Nealon, Chris Rock, David Spade, Colin Quinn, Billy Crystal, Jay Mohr, Dana Carvey, and probably a few more I can’t remember. That list has people who were bad at sketches but good at Weekend Update, people who did stand-up but also had improv training, and people who traded on their fame to do stand-up after SNL. Not a very long list of success for 44 seasons. As a general rule, Lorne Michaels does not pursue stand-ups. He much prefers people known for sketches and characters. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/15 "2019-06-08T19:41:47Z")
there were horrible comedians on all the “comedy hour” shows that proliferated in the 80s also what I think hurt stand up comedy was since Roseanne and a couple of others fictionalized their stage personas for tv and was massively popular it became “offer every mildly popular comedian a tv show” (it worked for Tim Allen and Drew Carey and it worked the best for Seinfeld it didn’t work for Brett Butler and the other 80 percent that tried ) and that spawned all the comedians basically turning their acts into tv tryouts ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/16 "2019-06-08T21:07:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That list has people who were bad at sketches but good at Weekend Update, people who did stand-up but also had improv training, and people who traded on their fame to do stand-up after SNL. Not a very long list of success for 44 seasons. > > As a general rule, Lorne Michaels does not pursue stand-ups. He much prefers people known for sketches and characters. Yeah, but there are more than I listed. Because I’m bored I went through the Wikipedia page and noted the cast members who had been standups. Aside from the ones I listed, you can add: Jeanine Garofolo, Pete Davidson, Adam Sandler, Darrel Hammond, A. Whitney Brown, Sarah Silverman, Jon Lovitz, Gilbert Gottfried, Rich Hall, Damon Wayans, Victoria Jackson, Rob Schneider, Laura Kightlinger, Jimmy Fallon, Jeff Richards, Bill Hader, Jon Rudnitsky. That’s 29 former standups out of about 150 cast and writers. plus there may be a rew more because their entries had no details. A number of them were famous standups before they joined the cast. I’m going to guess that ‘Stand up comedian’ is probably the most common former job of cast members. If not, it will be improv. But there’s no doubt that there have been a lot of former standups in the cast. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/17 "2019-06-08T21:16:54Z")
The 70’s had some great comics. This was the era of George Carlin, Steve Martin, Richard Pryor and Rodney Dangerfield. Jerry Seinfeld, Jay Leno and David Letterman got their start in the 70’s. A lot of big 60’s comedians were also big in the 70’s, like Bob Newhart, Robert Klein, Flip Wilson, Redd Fox, Don Rickles, and Bill Cosby. Other big 70’s comedians were Albert Brooks, Richard Lewis, Tom Dreesen, Phyllis Diller, David Brenner, Andy Kaufmann… A lot of this humor is now dated or re-used so much it’s now a cliche. But in the 70’s a lot of these guys were doing very cutting edge stuff. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-70s-standup-comedy-really-as-horrid-as-norm-crosbys-comedy-shop-makes-it-seem/835125/18 "2019-06-09T00:05:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, yes it has. The 70s were a growth period for the modern comics who could be much more offensive and controversial. There were leaders in the change like Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, but many more variety of styles emerged in that period. Sometimes the material itself had barely changed but was presented with more energy. Absurdism grew more popular, I think a generation raised on television understood the irony better. > > I’ve seen some clips from the Norm Crosby show, there’s a mix of quality and schlock humor in there. The cultural vs. chronological decade definition affects the way to describe this. The Crosby show represented 60s humor, which developed in the mid 60s and ran into the mid-70s, well characterized by Laugh-In. The 80s humor emerged with shows like SNL and movies like Used Cars and Animal House in the mid-70s. There really wasn’t much distinct 70s-only humor in between. Don’t forget Monty Python was a big comic influence (especially with regard to absurdist humor) from the late 70s onward.